Jack Brabham vs Lewis Hamilton

Champion of Champions

Champion of Champions: Jack Braham vs Lewis Hamilton

Jack Brabham and Lewis Hamilton both won the world championship in their second full season in the sport.

These are also drivers who spent a long time with the same team. Brabham only ever drove for cars entered by himself or Cooper (with one exception) and Hamilton has spent the first four years of his F1 career with McLaren.

Obviously a key point of difference between the two is the lengths of their careers: Brabham retired after 16 seasons in the sport, Hamilton is heading into his fifth.

Another striking difference between the two is the difference in reliability they enjoyed. The cars of the fifties and sixties Brabham drove were generally far less reliable – particularly in the years when he was developing his own.

Hamilton has the lowest car failure rate of any world champion. But if you factor out car breakages their adjusted average points score per race are quite close as you can see in the table below.

Which of these drivers should go through to the next round of the Champion of Champions? Vote for which you think was best below and explain who you voted for and why in the comments.

Lewis Hamilton Lewis Hamilton
Jack Braham Lewis Hamilton, McLaren, Interlagos, 2010
Titles 1959, 1960, 1966 2008
Second in title year/s Tony Brooks, Bruce McLaren, John Surtees Felipe Massa
Teams Cooper, Brabham McLaren
Notable team mates Bruce McLaren, Dan Gurney, Denny Hulme Fernando Alonso, Heikki Kovalainen, Jenson Button
Starts 123 71
Wins 14 (11.38%) 14 (19.72%)
Poles 13 (10.57%) 18 (25.35%)
Modern points per start1 7.63 12.31
% car failures2 34.96 2.82
Modern points per finish3 11.74 12.67
Notes Back-to-back titles for Cooper in 1959 and 1960 Finished on podium on debut and won his sixth race
Then became only driver to win a championship in his own car Became champion in his second season after narrowly missing rookie title win
Runner-up in 1967 to team mate Denny Hulme Formerly the youngest ever world champion
Bio Jack Brabham Lewis Hamilton

1 How many points they scored in their career, adjusted to the 2010 points system, divided by the number of races they started
2 The percentage of races in which they were not classified due to a mechanical failure
3 How many points they scored in their career, adjusted to the 2010 points system, divided by the number of starts in which they did not suffer a race-ending mechanical failure

Round one

Which was the better world champion driver?

  • Jack Brabham (51%)
  • Lewis Hamilton (49%)

Total Voters: 784

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Read the F1 Fanatic Champion of Champions introduction for more information and remember to check back tomorrow for the next round.

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Images ?é?® Peter Denton (Brabham), www.mclaren.com (Hamilton)

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380 comments on Jack Brabham vs Lewis Hamilton

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  1. F1iLike said on 24th January 2011, 11:27

    2,82% car failures… That’s incredible!

    Also, first!

    • Andy W (@andy-w) said on 24th January 2011, 16:29

      I know, and to think that many of the Lewis haters attack him for being a car breaker…..

      • Mike the bike Schumacher (@mike-the-bike-schumacher) said on 24th January 2011, 17:03

        Not being a Hamilton hater or anything but he does crash them quite a bit, maybe less so than before tho.

      • Jarred Walmsley (@jarred-walmsley) said on 24th January 2011, 18:01

        Car failures is mechanical failure and does not count the times Lewis sticks the car in the wall. Having said that I still voted for him, and this is by far the closest battle we’e had so far

      • Antifia said on 25th January 2011, 8:48

        Nice spin Andy. From lemon to lemonade. Normaly one would say that having close to zero car failures is something to qualify a driver’s achievements – one wonders what he would have achieved if he had had as many failures as expected (the average). You know, many people tend to think that these things are down to luck. But instead, you prefer to imply that the lack of car failures is due Lewis’ talents! Beautiful! But remember, next time his engine blows up or a suspension brakes, you have then to accept that it is not bad luck: it is his fault.

    • The Ram (@the-ram) said on 24th January 2011, 16:36

      Those coopers were rockets though. They were hugely dominant. Besides Even when the car failures are accounted for Hamilton still has more points per finish. I am going with Hamilton on this, he never had a huge car advantage and he had fierce competitors in Ferrari and the FIA in 2008.

    • Journeyer (@journeyer) said on 24th January 2011, 17:48

      I remember Lewis only have 3 car failures.

      1. Abu Dhabi 2009 (engine?)
      2. Spain 2010 (wheel bearing)
      3. Hungary 2010 (driveshaft)

      And that’s it. All other races he either finished or crashed out due to driver error.

      One wonders if he takes better care of his car than Kimi, or if it’s McLaren learning their lesson from Kimi.

    • miguelF1O (@) said on 24th January 2011, 17:58

      like i always say he almost never has car failures despite a few last year he won alot so young cause of his talent but do not forget the reliability

    • Fixy (@fixy) said on 24th January 2011, 19:09

      How close this poll is! I voted for Lewis, even not being a fan of him, because he is in my opinion one of the best drivers of today and even of all time. He is just fast and makes frequent passes. Having 52 races less than Brabham but having the same wins and even more poles is just a demonstration of his talent that I feel will bring him more successes in future. (But let’s hope Ferrari will always beath him!)

      • RIISE (@riise) said on 24th January 2011, 20:39

        Very close poll, I voted for Brabham.

        Come on Jack!!!

        • infy (@infy) said on 24th January 2011, 22:40

          I think this just proves how bias the readers of this site are.

          Keith, no matter what you say, this poll has proven all those people who said this site is bias towards the British drivers right.

          But ofc, you will just post a link and continue denying it.

          • LosD (@losd) said on 24th January 2011, 23:14

            How does it prove it?

            When one that is ahead in championships, and anoher is ahead in stats, it is bound to be close. How in the world does that prove anything?

          • skodarap (@skodarap) said on 25th January 2011, 8:22

            It’s not bias towards British drivers, I think it’s bias towards modern era drivers.

            I went with Brabham even though I have massive respect for Lewis and what he’s done so far in his F1 career. It’s just too early for him, he’s in the sport for only 4 seasons. And Sir Jack is … well, Sir Jack, one of all time greats. :D

          • Paper Tiger said on 25th January 2011, 12:16

            So let me get this straight. AUSTRALIAN Jack Brabham is currently leading BRIT Lewis Hamilton and this proves that the BRITISH are biased? I would suggest you look up the words ‘fact’ and ‘opinion’ in the dictionary, because you seem unable to understand that there is a difference between them.

          • macca77 said on 25th January 2011, 18:26

            I Agree with infy. For those who are saying that the Australian is leading the Brit, the bias is being shown in the poll being very close. If there wasn’t bias, Brabham has to win this by a mile… not close as it is now, how can you compare Lewis against Brabham and call it “close” when Jack a 3WDC drove his own cars !!! against a guy that was on the top tier of f1 since he started.
            Thank god Lewis was against Jack in this round so there is no possible way he can pass to the next. (Not even here)

        • Julian (@julian) said on 25th January 2011, 7:38

          I voted for brabham too. Anyone who can win a championship in their own car gets my vote lol

    • Old_boy_racer (@old_boy_racer) said on 24th January 2011, 23:18

      2,82% car failures… That’s incredible!

      I wonder if it would still be so low if he were building the car himself though. I suspect not.

    • Jelle van der Meer (@jelle-van-der-meer) said on 24th January 2011, 23:19

      Keith,

      Does car failures only include tyre failure or other mechanical issues forcing him to retire? What about accidents?

      Because 2.82% means only 2 in 71 races.
      * Tyre failure Germany 2007
      * Tyre failure Turkey 2007
      * Gear failure Brazil 2007
      * Accident Spa 2009
      * Gear failure Hungary 2010

      • Journeyer (@journeyer) said on 25th January 2011, 3:23

        Germany 2007 – that was in qualifying
        Turkey 2007 – he still finished the race
        Brazil 2007 – he still finished the race
        Spa 2009 – that wasn’t the car’s fault
        Hungary 2010 – is indeed a car failure. That was included in my count.

        If it’s only 2 in 71, though… I’m guessing Spain wasn’t included because Lewis was still classified. Was Lewis still classified at the end?

    • How to change vote?? I voted hammy by mistake.

  2. Hamilton. He might’ve won less titles but the rest of the stats outweigh that. That’s the only way to compare the two drivers from two different eras objectively.

    • I think this is going to be very close! :)

    • Sasquatsch (@sasquatsch) said on 24th January 2011, 11:44

      That’s only true if they had more or less equal cars to drive in. Brabham had far more car failures than Hamilton, while Hamilton had one of the best cars during his whole career.

      Without the car failures their points per race are close with Brabham often in a lesser car, so my vote goes to Brabham.

      • I fear the British bias will seap in. (not saying Aussies aren’t biased…. cough cough one/ten cough cough… there are way more British here

        • Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 24th January 2011, 12:11

          Don’t be a “bias” bore.

          Not everyone is dumb enough to think “ooh, he’s from the same country as me, I’ll vote for him”. I’d wager the vast majority aren’t.

          Besides, non-British users outnumber British users two-to-one on F1 Fanatic.

          • Fer no.65 (@fer-no65) said on 24th January 2011, 13:00

            you don’t need to explain the same stuff to people with half a brain.

          • kowalsky said on 24th January 2011, 13:11

            but this is so close keith. In this one nationality might have some weight.
            If you look at the titles, jack is the winner, but lewis is so good as an overall package, and have a good ten f1 years in front of him. To tell you the truth this is the first one i am undecided.
            I would say hamilton, for the way he handled alonso in 2007. And i know that alonso is a good match for brabham.

          • Macca (@macca) said on 24th January 2011, 13:22

            This shouldn’t even be close, Brabham won 3 titles, 1 in his own car, the only person to ever do that. Hamilton has only one 1 title in a car that was at least in the top 2 if not the best car on the grid, hardly amazing stuff.

          • Icemangrins said on 24th January 2011, 13:33

            good one……I’m not a British and I love Lewis..

          • Journeyer (@journeyer) said on 24th January 2011, 17:51

            Well, yes, but to be perfectly honest, this is a lot closer than it should be. IMO, the pairing is on a similar scale to Raikkonen-Stewart, but the voting… well, hasn’t.

            It’s no one’s fault, Keith, it’s just how things work out.

          • miguelF1O (@) said on 24th January 2011, 18:01

            keith like i´ve said you cant really know if you are bias there are british that dont like Ham but there are other that love him, schumacher is an dirty driver but because he was on ferrari i couldnt say that for many years,lewis is also a dirty driver a very sneeky guy but nontheless a great driver

          • True Keith, but if you look at the poll you’ll be amazed to find that it’s neck and oversized neck which is quite amazing given the facts.

            I’m not trying to bore, I’m just pointing out that the British Media is flogging British drivers are brilliant and it is having a rather large effect on the public. While I want Brabham to win, it’s not because I’m an Aussie, it’s because he has won with his own car, retired more than 1/3 of the time, only had a championship contending car 4 times, taking 3 and won 1 race in 1 other year.

            Hamilton, like Raikkonen has always pretty much been in a top car. 3/4 season Hamilton has been challenging down the last race. the 4th season he won races. During his championship year his teammate was a midtier driver.

            Facts and facts and the mere fact that it is as close as this suggests that many are voting with their hearts over minds

          • macca77 said on 25th January 2011, 18:39

            Keith if there wasn’t bias the poll would be 644 Brabham vs 0 Hamilton. It is now 344 against 300. Read the comments on why people votes for Hamilton and you will understand why the bias comment arises every time Ham is around.

        • spudw said on 24th January 2011, 20:02

          Being a sport fan is all about bias. Given that there’s no algorythm that I’m aware of to actually determine who is the greatest champion, all of these are, in part, about which champion has garnered enough ‘bias’.

          I say Hamilton, because I’m biased. And I’m not even British.

        • Jarred Walmsley (@jarred-walmsley) said on 25th January 2011, 8:05

          Well, I’m Australiasian and I voted for Hamilton, so that does stuff up your bias claim considerable doesn’t it. I agree that it was fantastic that Brabham did what he did and against anyone but Button, Hamilton, Hulme or Schumacher I would vote for him. And in fact I did last time.

          • Daniel said on 25th January 2011, 9:09

            Um, you say you rank Button ahead of Hamilton but that you voted for Hamilton last time, but Hamilton was against Button last time.

            Also, I’m guessing by Australasian you mean you are a resident of New Zealand. Could this have anything to do with Hulme being on your list of champions you rate highly?

        • despite being British and from the same area as Lewis, I voted for brabham. To win 3 titles, including one in a car you built, is simply astonishing. Makes Lewis look like a schoolboy, with a long way to go.

          • Speckled Jim (@speckled-jim) said on 25th January 2011, 9:41

            Brilliant shout Hare.

            Im british too but I also voted for Jack. Its the building of the car that secures it for me. My father built and raced single seaters for years and he had to work so hard at it. Respect to Jack.

      • Andy W (@andy-w) said on 24th January 2011, 16:43

        So his 2009 car was one of the best? Really? Yes it did win races and did make huge progress as the season went on, but do you think that had nothing to do with him.

        The thing is we are looking at the performances of the drivers not their cars. If you think Brabham was a better champion then by all means vote for him, but give the Jack the respect of voting for his ability as a driver not because he had the less reliable car….

        • Mack41 (@mack41) said on 24th January 2011, 17:00

          Its what he was able to do with less that is impressive.

        • Daniel said on 25th January 2011, 9:14

          The question doesn’t say anything about driving. It asks the question “who was the greatest champion of all time?” Brabham was a constructors champion and a 3 time driving champion. That puts him ahead in the champion stakes as far as I’m concerned. I also don’t recall him being involved in any controversies like lying to stewards.

    • The ability to overtake seems to impress many (including me), but Hamilton still makes many mistakes. He could have won the title last year, but errors at Monza, Brazil and one more (in front of alonso – korea?) were too much. He is still improving.
      vote for brabham

    • TommyB (@tommyb89) said on 24th January 2011, 20:03

      I voted for Hamilton. I never got to watch Brabham race and Lewis is one of the best from MY era. I’ve seen all the great races Lewis has done and his stats are very impressive.

      Same number of wins as Brabham despite almost half the races too.

      • bananarama (@bananarama) said on 24th January 2011, 22:53

        If you calculate the times the cars failed its 80 races Brabham could have finished in P1 against 69 races Hamilton could have finished P1. Puts it in perspective a bit. Also, its very likely Hamiltons stats would drop considerably if he founded his own team and built it up back to the top within a couple of years. I’m pretty sure after being double WDC he could have gone to any team but he decided not to and endured over 40 races without a win in his own cars until he was able to strike again.

        My vote goes to Sir Jack. :-)

        • bananarama (@bananarama) said on 24th January 2011, 22:59

          Also I don’t understand what people mean when they say Hamilton has more competition. I wouldn’t rate Surtees, Rindt, Hulme, Hill, Clark and Stewart lower than the likes of Alonso, Vettel and the rest of todays field (except Schumacher, but well …..).

  3. Samuel said on 24th January 2011, 11:41

    You kind of expect Lewis to win more titles if McLaren build a car on par with the rest of the competition, he’s shown his class and his talent to make one believe that…so it wont be inconceivable that he retires with as much or more championships than Graham Hill.
    Maybe this is a slightly “fanboyish” type vote but hey, I never saw Hill race, Ive seen Lewis, and Ive seen enough of the fighting overtaker to give this vote to him.

    • I would have picked Graham Hill…. except for the fact he wasn’t an option….

      Hamilton vs Brabham mate

    • miguelF1O (@) said on 24th January 2011, 18:04

      thanks for agreeing that you are a “fanboyish” but i have to say that theres no way to compare this 2 drivers so many years of difference lewis won a champ he didnt deserve and lost one he deserved thats too little of a career thats why i voted brabham

  4. JCCJCC (@jccjcc) said on 24th January 2011, 11:42

    I vote based on what the drivers achieved at this moment.
    And at this moment (24 January 2011), Brabham achieved more than Hamilton, hence receives my vote.

  5. Brabham by far.

    A quick comparison makes it all clear and is very much related to these two drivers.

    Hamilton:
    Had a Championship contending car 3/4 seasons.
    Race wining car 4/4 seasons.

    Brabham:
    Had a Championship contending car 4/16 seasons.
    Race wining car 5/16 seasons.

    Brabham has great statistics given that more than 1/3 of all his races ended up in car failuer, and when he could race 3/4 of the time he didn’t have a car up there for a full season, and nearly so for atleast part of the season.

    Hamilton:
    1/3 championship contentions converted (1 threw away, 1 partially his fault, mostly due to others suprerior cars)

    Brabham:
    3/4 championship contentions converted (teammate had the 4th)

    • BasCB (@bascb) said on 24th January 2011, 12:03

      I agree, Lewis is good, and he is still improving. But Brabham acheived far more than Lewis did up to now, pretty clear for me.

    • Dougie (@f1droid) said on 24th January 2011, 13:02

      This goes along with my own train of thought on this. Lewis stats are weighed up by the fact his career is short in championship contending car for 3 out of 4 seasons. In that time the only Championship he won was against Felippe Massa, and Hamilton had to back into that one, not really taking it convincingly.

      Brabham’s career reflects those of the greats, and has achieved more in Championship wins with difficult cars.

    • sumedh said on 24th January 2011, 13:24

      Excellent summary of Brabham’s career. Better than what has been written by Keith. I have to vote for Brabham too after reading your comment.

      The only point Hamilton has over Brabham is that he has never been beaten by his team-mate while Brabham lost the title to his team-mate.

    • Hedge (@hedge) said on 24th January 2011, 19:26

      Absolutely, Hamilton has yet to dominate a championship and barely managed to win his only one so far. He’s achieved a lot in a short time but hasn’t done enough to win this match up yet.

    • Thanks guys.

      Hamilton equaled Alonso in 07. Big feat. Then had Kovalianan (midtier) during his championship year (biggest contender suually), then again in 09 and finally a proper teammate in 10.

      Brabham drove the same car as McLaren (the guy who spawned the team) and some chap named Stirling Moss (T51 in 59), and again in 60. IN 66 he was teammates to with to be next yeaer world champion Hulme

    • Todfod (@todfod) said on 25th January 2011, 6:32

      Unoc just made my decision a whole lot easier. Brabham it is..

    • Zeus_m3 (@zeus_m3) said on 25th January 2011, 14:16

      Good point.

  6. RoboCAT (@robocat) said on 24th January 2011, 11:49

    Brabham defiently, I would be very surprised and disapointed if Hamilton got rhough on this one. Jack Brabham is such a legend in Formula One. I don’t dislike Hamilton or anything but he’s been in a Mclaren in all his years in F1, has only won one championship by luck in 2008. I’m sure Hamilton will go on to win more titles, but seriously Brabham should get though on this one.

    • Dobin1000 (@dobin1000) said on 24th January 2011, 16:34

      This ‘luck’ thing is really getting old now. Luck doesn’t explain how Hamilton was in a position to win a championship in the first place.

      Luck can win you a one-off competition, but not a 16 round championship.

      And I’m not a Hamilton fanboy – I prefer Button, although Kubica is probably my favourite driver at the moment.

    • TomD11 (@tomd11) said on 24th January 2011, 19:59

      I know, it was very lucky that a driver gambled on dry tyres in wet conditions and then had to drive slowly due to a lack of grip, allowing a driver who was only out of position due to said other driver’s gamble and who had received some questionable penalties from the sport’s governing body, to win the title.

  7. rfs (@rfs) said on 24th January 2011, 11:51

    I’m a Lewis fan, but Brabham won 3 WDCs. One of them with his very own team. Lewis might win one or two more championships but with the intensity of the competition these days that’s not guaranteed. Brabham gets my vote.

  8. David B (@david-b) said on 24th January 2011, 11:56

    A hard one!!!
    I voted Jack, because he is in hystory for number of title won. Lewis is one of the most promising drivers I ever seen. He’s so young and quick you need to predict may others championship for him in the future…
    In the future…
    Let’s say Lewis may be the winner of the overall poll in 2020. Not now.

  9. tyngdekraft (@tyngdekraft) said on 24th January 2011, 12:02

    Hamilton. I want to see him against Senna next round

  10. Rubicon (@rubicon) said on 24th January 2011, 12:04

    Has to be Brabham I think. He built and took his own car to the championship which is a very impressive feat. I’m a Hamilton supporter and he’s driven some very impressive races but unlike Brabham he’s been in a competitve car his whole F1 career. Look at the % of car failures, think how much better Black Jack’s stats would look if he had a bit more reliability!

  11. McLarenFanJamm (@mclarenfanjamm) said on 24th January 2011, 12:05

    wow, as I type this it’s 27-25 in Brabhams favour. How close!? This is going to go down to the wire folks.

  12. Chalky (@chalky) said on 24th January 2011, 12:06

    I voted for Brabham. I think the achievement of winning a car with your own name is quite a feat. I’m trying to exclude any “What will happen?” for future drivers. Otherwise Vettel would have gained my vote in round 1. Same applies here for Lewis.

    • RoboCAT (@robocat) said on 24th January 2011, 12:11

      I agree with you there. There are so many ‘maybes’. Hamilton may win another championship, maybe two more, maybe he won’t even win another one with all the tough competition. But Jack Brabham has win 3 world championships, one with his won car.

    • Tango said on 24th January 2011, 16:12

      How could a driver win a champ in a car with his name on it nowadays? Joe Mc Laren or Fred Ferrari maybe ? Johny Red Bull?

  13. bkromeo (@bkromeo) said on 24th January 2011, 12:11

    Braham built a car because those days anyone with a car could pay and enter the race. there wasn’t the crucial competition that we see today. The fight on track, the technological advances and the FIA rules.
    Hamilton has raced against the greats of modern era and beat them, straight from race 1 in Formula 1 and is on the path of becoming an all time great. he’s already a legend just at the dawn of his 5th F1 season. what more to expect? i would give him my vote even against my all time great Ayrton Senna. He’s a true Champion of Champions

    • kowalsky said on 24th January 2011, 13:23

      you are pushing it there a bit too much romeo. Senna did some things that lewis still have to do. He is looking good, but senna was the fastest for several years.
      I like lewis in the wet and in qualy, but he still is far off when the pressure builds up at the end of the season. He must show that in the near future, or the titles might keep slipping away.

    • Cyclops_PL (@cyclops_pl) said on 24th January 2011, 17:27

      My recommendation: go offline, breathe some fresh air. Then comeback and think again about what you wrote.

  14. schooner said on 24th January 2011, 12:14

    I had to give Brabham my vote. 5 or 6 years from now it would probably be a different story.

  15. Cyclops_PL (@cyclops_pl) said on 24th January 2011, 12:52

    If Hamilton wins it, that would be the ultimate proof of F1 Fanatic’s viewers bias towards that driver.

    3 titles vs 1

    almost 35 % of failures vs almost 3 %.

    his own team vs nowadays McLaren powerhouse.

    • John H said on 24th January 2011, 16:10

      Hamilton will probably win this one in 10 years. At the moment, it has to be Brabham.

      And please please please stop going on about bias. It’s so incredibly boring. Note: I be Hamilton fan. I vote Brabham for objective reasons. I have brain. etc…

    • summers (@summers) said on 24th January 2011, 16:17

      I am from Poland and I vote for Hamilton. What does it proof? In my opinion he’s the better driver…

    • Dobin1000 (@dobin1000) said on 24th January 2011, 16:40

      Here are some alternative statistics -

      Brabham won title in 18.75% of his seasons racing. Hamilton has won the title in 25% of his seasons.

      Ipso facto, Hamilton is better.

      Or does it just prove that numbers are meaningless and can be bent to prove whatever point you want to make?

      • I know the point you’re getting at, but I’d just like to point out that at the same point in their career (4 full seasons), Brabham had won 50%.

    • The Ram (@the-ram) said on 24th January 2011, 16:44

      Look at the “modern points per finish” numb nuts.. :)

    • LuvinF1 (@luvinf1) said on 24th January 2011, 16:45

      Wow! Appears to be quite a big chip you’re carrying around on your shoulder. Please remember that each us comes with our own point of view made up of a unique set of preferences, perceptions and biases. In my case – sometimes applied with some rational thinking. The diversity on this site is very interesting, always informative, generally entertaining and sometimes quite comical.

      • Cyclops_PL (@cyclops_pl) said on 24th January 2011, 17:20

        I find comical rating higher Hamilton just becuase he’s currently popular rather than on his achievemnts and circumstances of those achievemnts, over a guy who won more in a weaker car.

        • Cyclops_PL (@cyclops_pl) said on 24th January 2011, 17:31

          Again, to make things clear. Im pretty far from giving in to this weir “nationality bias” thing. I just think, that there’s a lot of people who know F1 only from recent years, probably didn’t even hear about Brabham and are infatuated with Hamilton as a celebrity not really paying attention to his achievements in the sport. Looking from a distance, it’s nothing special. He’s not even the youngest ever champion know. He’s just one of many one time champions. A very good driver, one of the very best on CURRENT grid, but that does not entitle him to be placed above all time greats.

          • You do know that out of the n number of drivers that have raced in F1, n-1 of them are not the youngest WDC? Does Alonso rate less highly because Lewis took his youngest WDC crown. Not one iota. Same thing with Lewis and Vettel. Looking at the sport from a distance, it is not too difficult to see that the driver who tries the most overtakes and on track moves instead of nursing his car all race will be most revered by casual and fanatic supporters of the sport.

    • Aditya S (@aditya-s) said on 24th January 2011, 16:59

      Superlike this one!!!

    • TomD11 (@tomd11) said on 24th January 2011, 19:51

      Yes and in 59 and 66 the runners up had more retirements, so what’s your point?

      Like Dobin says below, Hamilton has won the title in 25% of his seasons, Brabham 18.75%.

      Yes Brabham won in his own car, a great accomplishment, but nowadays it simply isn’t feasible for anyone to equal that feat.

      Hamilton has never had a dominant car, 07 and 08 were title contenders and he won 1 and lost 1, 09 was a dog and 10 was competitive but I don’t think quite enough to take the title. It was only through Red Bull’s failure to capitalise only their own car’s potential that the McLaren drivers were contenders.

      While personally I don’t think it was a good idea to include current drivers in this competition, their inclusion means that potential for future results has to be taken into account. Brabham won 3 titles, Hamilton has currently won one and I don’t see it as beyond the bounds of reason that Hamilton won’t equal or better that result.

      Additionally I would have thought that the past vs current comaprison will give a certain benefit to the driver from the past, due to the tendency to remember them through rose-tinted specs. Not that Brabham did some terrible thing that people aren’t remembering but inevitably he will be regarded more fondly.

      So, if you simply take into accoutn their accomplishments to date, I would be inclined to vote for Brabham. However if you also account for Hamilton’s potential for the future, there’s no reason to believe he won’t leave a legacy, like Brabham, as one of the greats. At which point the decision comes down to the finer points and personal taste.

      • Mikos said on 24th January 2011, 23:15

        You can’t vote for what might happen in the future or potentially happen…you can only go on reults to date. Hamilton might win 6 world championships, he might take up potato farming, he might build his own racecar and win the world championship, he might have kids with nicole schirliwicker and decide he should become a house husband and open a bed and breakfast, he might win the noble prize for peace. All this means is he ‘might’ one day have a better record than Brabham.

        You can only go on results to date – he stacks up well against most drivers, he’s already a champion that will be remembered for what he’s done in his own right… But against Brabham an outright F1 legend.
        As Job would say in arrested development – COME ON?

      • Zeus_m3 (@zeus_m3) said on 25th January 2011, 14:31

        I like Lewis too, but Jacques Villeneuve also seemed to be a legend in the making so you can never be certain about the future.

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