Alonso said he was “much quicker” than Massa in Korea

F1 Fanatic round-up

In the round-up: Alonso complained about being held up by Massa in Korea.

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Korean Grand Prix video edit (F1)

Previously unheard team radio from the Korean grand Prix reveals Fernando Alonso told Ferrari “I am much quicker than Felipe [Massa]” during the race.

That he said this is no great surprise, but it is interesting for two reasons. First, he used the exact same words when urging Ferrari to use team orders to make Massa pull over for him in Hockenheim last year.

Second, it flatly contradicts his remarks to the BBC’s Lee McKenzie immediately after the Korean race. Alonso said: “No, I was not much quicker at that time [...] I was not much quicker at that time of the race. I was only quick in the last stint with the last set of tyres.”

Bernie Ecclestone calm after Indian GP builders put their foot down (The Guardian)

“I was pessimistic a fortnight ago. I was sent pictures of the track and I thought: ‘Christ, we’re not going to get it finished in time,’. But what they have done in the meantime ?ǣ and I’ve been sent more recent pictures ?ǣ is incredible. The people there are very anxious to be sure they’re doing a good job and they are very passionate about their sport.”

Hundreds attend Wheldon funeral (BBC)

Susie Wheldon: “Although the last few days have been unbearable for our family, the overwhelming love and support we have received are rays of sunshine during these dark days.”

Indian GP will put the country among elite (Deccan Herald)

“Perhaps it is only fitting that the pioneers of the sport in India are remembered in the run-up to the inaugural Formula One Indian Grand Prix. The first motorsport event of any type was held in 1904 by the Motor Union of Western India. The race began in Delhi and culminated in Bombay (Mumbai), covering 1,300 km.”

Thousands welcome F1 champion Vettel home (AP)

Sebastian Vettel said he was ‘overwhelmed’ Saturday when around 30,000 fans welcomed the Formula 1 world champion home.”

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Comment of the day

Aka_robyn is excited about the potential New Jersey Grand Prix in 2013:

I’m ridiculously excited! A Grand Prix I can walk to is definitely something I can live with.

Now to get everyone else around here excited about it. For many people around here, motor racing equals NASCAR equals something they want nothing to do with, and few of them understand how different F1 is. I think a good first step would be a demo run.
Aka_robyn

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On this day in F1

The 1966 season ended 45 years ago today in Mexico City. John Surtees won, driving a Cooper-Maserati, at the track where he had won the championship two years earlier.

Jack Brabham, who already had the 1966 title wrapped up, and team mate Denny Hulme, completed the podium.

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87 comments on Alonso said he was “much quicker” than Massa in Korea

  1. electrolite (@electrolite) said on 23rd October 2011, 0:15

    His belief is that at all times he absolutely has the confidence in himself that he is better than anyone else. Which like it or not, that drive is why he’s where he is and ultimately why he’s a multiple world champion. Not a lot of drivers would have the balls to say that over the radio…on the other hand it was a bit silly of him to contradict himself after the race. Is suppose by then he had PR in mind but in the heat of the race it all came out.

    Thought I’d try and see this one outside the box and balance out the argument before it starts ;) And lets be honest, if you’re loads faster than your team mate in a situation like that, then there’s not one driver on the grid or any of us that wouldn’t be thinking the same thing in our heads.

    • colinf (@colinf) said on 24th October 2011, 19:33

      To all who are bashing Alonso:

      Everything you are saying is ultimately speculation. What is an objective FACT is that Alonso knocked out 20+ devastating laps once he had clear track. Those laps were no joke.

  2. Architrion (@architrion) said on 23rd October 2011, 0:16

    I think Keith has missed a point about Alonso being quicker than Massa. Fernando said he was slow on his first stint. Watching the video, he says he is quicker than Massa at the end of the second stint, so I can’t see no contradiction on his remarks.

    But maybe I’m loosing something here…

    • Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 23rd October 2011, 0:28

      @architrion He referred to being “stuck behind Nico” in the second stint but adds he was “not much quicker” than Massa. Yet apparently at this time he was telling his team he was “much quicker” than Massa.

      Looking at the interview as a whole, he clearly rejects the premise of the question that he lost time being stuck behind Massa. I don’t think you can reasonably say that is consistent with what he told the team during the race.

      • Polishboy808 (@polishboy808) said on 23rd October 2011, 0:45

        Remember, they don’t always play the audio at the same time it was said, so that could have been said later (or earlier for that matter) then the video showed. I’m still not seeing this as contradicting, and before we all jump on the (unprofessional) conspiracy theory boat here, lets ask a few questions.

        Why would he be in such a desperate rush to get past Massa? Last year he was a title contender, so team orders made sense, but this year, theres no such pressure.

        How do you know he wasn’t just stating that to tell the team that he’s quick? Sure, that might be a bit naive, but its another thing to consider.

        And since team orders obviously didn’t play into the situation here, is there really a need to make such an assumption on such a reputable site? Remember, journalists aren’t supposed to be conspiracy theorist (unless your Fox News….).

        Just some things to think about ;)

        • Mike (@mike) said on 23rd October 2011, 2:32

          Why would he be in such a desperate rush to get past Massa?

          Simple, he’s faster and his team mate is holding him up.

          I’m 100% sure that Alonso wanted Ferrari to move Massa over.

          • Polishboy808 (@polishboy808) said on 23rd October 2011, 17:45

            @Mike You didn’t read the rest of what I said, did you?

            And my original post was aimed @Keith Collantine

          • Mike (@mike) said on 23rd October 2011, 20:45

            I did, and I disagree.

            I can’t see why he would have said it had he not been stuck behind Massa at the time of saying it.

            It’s fairly obvious that Alonso was faster, and using the same words as he did in Hockemheim can’t just be a coincidence.

            Ok, yes you are right. We don’t know that he said it when he did. But probability says otherwise.

            Which then brings the interesting issue of changing history at the interviews.

      • Architrion (@architrion) said on 23rd October 2011, 0:59

        Alonso said at the spanish tv that he wasn’t held by Massa because he could not get a real performance of the supersoft tyres. He was better on the softs, after the first pitstop and the safety car.

        I think this take on the video was moments before the second pitstop. I didn’t know what he said to BBC, but I would expect it would be quite similar to what he said to La Sexta, where he was clear than on the first stint he wasn’t fast enough to feel he was slowed down by Massa.

        Maybe the guy was trying to be polite…. he had a difficult time at the islands, and came back to school to grab some manners and pr abilities… McLaren should feel proud of it’s creation :-)

      • Julian (@julian) said on 23rd October 2011, 3:03

        Eh, hindsight is a wonderful thing is it not?

    • UKFan (@) said on 23rd October 2011, 3:39

      His character is quite hard to bear still I cant see anything wrong with his statements I agree with you.

  3. bananarama (@bananarama) said on 23rd October 2011, 0:17

    Oh I can see the Alonso bashing coming already, but thats life. Obviously he would tell his team he is faster, if there is one driver out there who doesn’t think or want to think he can go faster than the car he follows all along, there is something seriously wrong with that driver. And of course, if he was much faster then why didn’t he simply overtake Massa? I saw him trying but his car looked very unstable under acceleration so thats not ideal for getting alongside someone. Guess even if he had been able to follow Ham, Web, But it would have been almost impossible for him to overtake them.

    The Vettel thing was huge (I live nearby) but one thing struck me: in tv they said he used his car from the last race there but to me it didn’t look like the current car at all. Which would make sense since they wouldn’t send the car from Korea to Heppenheim to India but I found it a little weird that they lied about it.

    And about the F1 near NYC: I’d like it very much but I’ll believe it when I see it.

    • Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 23rd October 2011, 0:29

      @bananarama

      And of course, if he was much faster then why didn’t he simply overtake Massa?

      Yes, that thought did occur to me!

      • US_Peter (@us_peter) said on 23rd October 2011, 0:44

        Maybe he was trying to “overtake” Massa just like he did at Hockenheim last year…

      • the flying finn said on 23rd October 2011, 3:29

        like prost, this “competitive animal” uses everything in his hand to take an advantage, even if it’s an unfair advantage.
        He knows he has the upper hand withing the team, and he talks to see what he can get out of his words.
        I never liked prost, and i don’t specialy like alonso even if he is from my country.

        • ivz (@ivz) said on 23rd October 2011, 4:54

          Webber was much faster than Hamilton, but he couldn’t overtake? And had Massa not held him up, he had a shot at the podium, clearly with the speed he had in clear air.
          Who really cares if Alonso said one thing to his team (the truth) and one thing to the media? Big deal!

          • Adam Tate (@adam-tate) said on 23rd October 2011, 9:23

            And of course, if he was much faster then why didn’t he simply overtake Massa?

            It’s just more evidence that Alonso feels entitled. Big news flash for him, 2005-2006 was a long time ago. The big argument of the past several seasons is that he is the “most complete driver” on the grid. But that argument is being torn to shreds by Vettel and even Button are of late. You can talk all you want about his car disadvantage, but until he wins another title it’s all a bunch of talk. I used to like him, I used to love seeing him drag a Renault to places where it should never have finished, but he’s become the biggest jerk in the field.

      • STSCM (@stscm) said on 23rd October 2011, 11:37

        Cars from the same stable would normally have similar characteristics in the various sectors of the race, which does away with any advantages making it very hard to pass. That’s why Hamilton was able to hold off a faster Webber, MSC was able to hold off a faster Hamilton for so long, and Massa holding off a faster Alonso. In almost all cases in todays ‘rig’, hold the guy off long enough for his tires to go south and you’re good to the next pit stop.

    • Hyoko said on 24th October 2011, 16:16

      Oh I can see the Alonso bashing coming already, but thats life.

      That’s not life, that’s one of F1F’s most beloved features: the CFABPOTW (compulsory Ferrari/Alonso bashing post of the week). Like I always say, never ever feed the tr*lls

    • Horacio said on 26th October 2011, 11:36

      And of course, if he was much faster then why didn’t he simply overtake Massa?
      +1. Exactly. But then, without all the the whining and complains, he wouldn’t be Alonso. In this sense, Alonso reminds me of Pelé. The brazilian footballer Romário once said that Pelé “when is silent, is a poet”. IMO, so is Alonso.

  4. STSCM (@stscm) said on 23rd October 2011, 0:24

    Lord, Surtees, Brabham and Hulme, what a great time that was.
    In regard to the Alonso point, it was painfully obvious that from the middle of the race on he was in fact faster than Massa, just not enough to get around him. Shame actually, would have made the end of the race quite interesting. Still and all, a good outcome.
    Wish F1 would go to places like Laguna Seca, my personal favorite, or fixup Watkins Glen for historical perspectives, racing the Jersey Shore doesn’t do much for me, even though I’m a few hours from there.

    • Steve Ellis said on 23rd October 2011, 11:42

      If you live a few hours from the Jersey Shore, you should be smart enough to know that West New York is no where’s near the shore.

  5. Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 23rd October 2011, 0:42

    If Alonso really was faster than Massa, he would have passed him easily.

    Why is it that Alonso complains that he is faster than other people when he clearly isn’t?

    • John H (@john-h) said on 23rd October 2011, 0:55

      Because he clearly is faster than Massa! Come on, we all know passing was tough unless you were much quicker, just ask Webber. For once I completely understand Alonso here. Cost them a podium perhaps. I don’t approve of team orders, but sometimes the other driver needs to work it out for themselves.

      • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 23rd October 2011, 2:29

        Because he clearly is faster than Massa! Come on, we all know passing was tough unless you were much quicker, just ask Webber.

        If Alonso was as fast as you suggest he is, he would have had no trouble passing Massa on his own.

    • Huron (@huron) said on 23rd October 2011, 1:07

      Hamilton was faster than Schumacher at Monza and couldn’t pass easily.

      It is F1. Sometimes the faster car just can not overtake.

      • Dizzy said on 23rd October 2011, 2:10

        Plus its usually harder to pass your team mate who has identical equipment with pretty similar performance for brakes, drs, kers, engine etc…

        something else which would have hurt alonso’s chances to pass massa was drs because massa also had drs avaliable due to been behind another car himself.

        • Todfod (@todfod) said on 24th October 2011, 8:52

          Good point. I never realised it, but even Massa was trailing either Webber or Rosberg, and Alonso didn’t have the DRS advantage.

          Personally, I think Alonso should have tried more aggressively to overtake Massa. Alonso’s calculative and risk avoiding approach might be more sensible, but will not always be appreciated by the fans. I think Fernando has no one but himself to blame for being behind a significantly slower teammate in the first place.

  6. Hey, cool! Comment of the day! Now I’m excited about that, too! :-)

    A few weeks ago, I mentioned to a couple friends that this New Jersey GP might be in the works, and they looked at me like they thought I’d finally gone right off the deep end. I think they secretly thought it was just something I’d fantasized. I eagerly await the official announcement on Tuesday, when I can rub their faces in how not crazy I am! ;-)

  7. MGriffin90 (@mgriffin90) said on 23rd October 2011, 1:14

    If you were “much quicker” than Felipe, why didn’t you just pass him, Fernando?

  8. sato113 (@sato113) said on 23rd October 2011, 1:47

    keith can we have a COTD stats page? with a rankings table based on how many we have? :D i think i had a COTD a while ago.

  9. cduk_mugello (@cduk_mugello) said on 23rd October 2011, 2:02

    Another slow F1 news day then…

    Seriously, it isn’t that big a deal that Alonso tries to not cause a fuss in public. Of course behind closed doors he’ll say he’s faster.

    I’m pretty glad that he doesn’t run his mouth in public.

    It really grates on me that a week or so after a race, we have to be dragged through the ‘scandal’ of some new piece of team radio. Great, there’s some more info for people that like it. But let’s not dress it up to be anything that it isn’t.

    • On the contrary said on 23rd October 2011, 3:05

      Yup scandal lovers posing as F1 fans are us….

    • Klaas (@klaas) said on 23rd October 2011, 10:07

      How come we all get only Ferrari’s team radio? I tend to think that there are people who listen only to Massa and Alonso’s radio transmissions to suck ‘scandals’ out of the finger later. Now every word Alonso says to his team is to be interpreted in 100 of ways. It looks more and more like a witchhunt.

      • Klaas (@klaas) said on 23rd October 2011, 10:20

        Just read the horrible news – MotoGP rider Marco Simoncelli dies from injuries sustained in a crash at Sepang Circuit. R.I.P Marco. That’s 2 deaths in 1 week in motorsport. Now that’s something worth thinking about and not the BS we’re commenting.

    • twostrand said on 23rd October 2011, 11:41

      spot on,,,when nothing much is happening,,the default position is to start alonso bashing,,,i suppose it helps divert attention from hamiltons recent sulking…

  10. On the contrary said on 23rd October 2011, 3:01

    Excellent Reporting, and stirring pot, let the slanderfest begin :) Spaniard demon, we simply love making monster out of you.

  11. UKFan (@) said on 23rd October 2011, 3:33

    We all know Teflonso but I must say that he was quite polite Its “forgivable”.

  12. HoHum (@hohum) said on 23rd October 2011, 5:28

    Hearing Alonsos complaint ” I am faster” adds subject to his later transmission “I give up” eg.” see what I could have done if you had told Massa to let me by, but you didn’t so this is the result.

    • BasCB (@bascb) said on 23rd October 2011, 19:15

      @hohum exactly what Brundle was making of it during the race commentary, and that was without hearing the radio messages.

      Good job from FOM they confirmed this to be true, especially as Ferrari were talking about how it was all fine to Alonso for having been stuck behind Massa.

      One thing really positive about this is, that Massa is allowed to give it his all and keep results if he can do it on track now that the WDC is over and done with. Lets hope he can take courage from that for the rest of his career next year.

  13. Magnificent Geoffrey (@magnificent-geoffrey) said on 23rd October 2011, 8:25

    I’m not quite sure what grounds Alonso has to complain here. If you really are faster, you should maybe try to overtake someone instead of expecting the team to do your job for you.

    For as good a driver as Alonso is, I’ve noticed he’s spent a lot of time this year behind clearly slower cars and hasn’t been able to get past them. He’s also the one you see being overtaken a lot of the time too.

  14. Dev (@dev) said on 23rd October 2011, 8:25

    if Alonso was much faster as he said he should have got ahead of Massa at the start , or should have qualified ahead or should have showed that on track. he would have not got ahead of Massa had they stopped for the similar time in the pits while changing tires. BTW it would a good thing to compare pit times of all drivers compared to their team mates. i’m sure we will find a pattern.

  15. L.A.Munro said on 23rd October 2011, 8:48

    Exact same thing he said at Hockenheim last year. Massa is driving for the team as well Fernando, he isn’t your bottlefeeder, he won’t give anything up as easy.

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