Sebastian Vettel, Red Bull, Interlagos, 2011

Was Vettel’s ‘gearbox problem’ team orders in disguise?

2011 Brazilian Grand PrixPosted on | Author Keith Collantine

Sebastian Vettel, Red Bull, Interlagos, 2011
Sebastian Vettel, Red Bull, Interlagos, 2011

Was Sebastian Vettel’s gearbox problem in the Brazilian Grand Prix really all it seemed?

Or, as some have already suggested, was it an elaborate ruse to gift victory to Mark Webber?

Christian Horner explained the nature of Vettel’s problem: “The gearbox had a problem from lap five, we didn’t think it would make half-distance.

“He kept it alive, he short-shifted, he did all the things that were needed to. And [it was] phenomenal for him to get it to the end.”

Vettel described how it affected his driving during the race: “Very early I got the call that we have to manage a gearbox problem. I had to turn down the engine, short-shift, and it was just getting worse throughout the race so I ended up using highest gears pretty much everywhere.”

Was it a real fault or were Red Bull using team orders to switch their drivers?

For

Going into the race Vettel had already won 11 races and had the championship wrapped up weeks ago. However Webber hadn’t won a race all year, and a victory could provide a much-needed boost for him after a tough season.

Getting Webber into first place was the only chance they had of securing second place in the drivers’ championship for him, which was something the team specifically set out to accomplish.

Christian Horner said last month: “Our priority is to get Mark up into second in the drivers?óÔéĽÔäó championship,” adding, “it’d be great to see him win a race this year before the year?óÔéĽÔäós out.”

Vettel’s alleged problem looked too convenient – it was apparently serious enough to cost him the win, but never grave enough to put him under threat from the likes of Fernando Alonso or Jenson Button.

Vettel even set the fastest lap at one stage, before being reminded again by the team to nurse his car.

It stretches credulity that Vettel was able to nurse his car for so long, while Lewis Hamilton retired shortly after McLaren discovered a gearbox problem on his car.

Against

Gearbox problems can manifest themselves in different ways and are not necessarily terminal. Paul di Resta and Bruno Senna also had gearbox problems and finished the race without losing much time.

There are plenty of examples of drivers finishing in high positions with gearbox problems in the past, such as Michael Schumacher in Spain in 1994 and Ayrton Senna at Interlagos 20 years earlier – which Vettel referred to during the race.

If Red Bull did want to use team orders, why disguise them? They aren’t illegal, unlike last year. When Red Bull chose to use team orders in Silverstone, instructing Webber not to pass Vettel, they made no attempt to cover up what they were doing.

When team do use team orders they tend to wait until late in the race, because they can’t be sure how the race is going to unfold. However Vettel’s gearbox problem was acknowledged well before half-distance, and he gave up the lead on lap 30 of 71.

Vettel finished the race 17 seconds behind Webber. For a driver who has usually finished ahead of his team mate by a greater margin than that this year, it indicates Vettel probably lost a significant amount of time with his problem, but the likes of McLaren and Ferrari weren’t close enough to capitalise on it.

I say

At the moment it’s impossible to prove conclusively whether Red Bull used covert team orders or not.

As team orders are legal and Red Bull have shown that, unlike last year, they are now prepared to use them, I don’t see a compelling reason for them to use team orders but make a secret of it.

Given the underhand methods and coded messages some teams have employed when using team orders in the past – such as Ferrari at Hockenheim last year – I’m not surprised that some people doubt Red Bull’s sincerity on this occasion.

But based on the information available to us at the moment, I’m prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt.

You say

Do you think Vettel’s ‘gearbox problem’ was team orders in disguise? Cast your vote below and explain your choice in the comments.

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178 comments on “Was Vettel’s ‘gearbox problem’ team orders in disguise?”

  1. I was a bit skeptical at first but at the end of the day, I don’t see why they’d lie when they had already openly discussed the possibility, and used open team orders twice this season already (Silverstone and Korea).

    1. @KateM Silverstone I remember but Korea?

      1. I think there was a message along the lines of “hold station” in the last few laps. But it turned out to be irrelevant anyway, because Webber wasn’t really gaining enough to be a serious threat.

        1. Hold station behind Hamilton?

          1. Never mind, it was Japan you were talking about, where Vettel was also asked not to attack Alonso and bring it home for a podium.

      2. “why disguise them”

        the author asks? To keep the pride of Webber live. That’s the only reason. Plus it makes a lot more sense to hand him the victory, because he’s fighting for third place.
        Come on guys, Vettel set the fastest lap with the “gearbox issue” – Hamilton did the same, and retired.

        Needless theater.

        1. @kiril-varbanov – But Mark Webber set the fastest lap, a 1:15.324.

          1. Overall, at the end, yes, but there was a time after VET knew he had leaks, etc.
            Honestly, today I don’t really care – I’m glad that the season is over, and I’m looking forward to have 2012 with Kimi back.

    2. Japan you mean, when Webber was asked not to attack Seb during the closing stages

      1. Actually you’re right, it was Japan. I forgot which round it was that Vettel clinched the WDC!

  2. Why would they set it up? at the time the gearbox started to fail, a chance of rain was still on the radars, so if they wanted to switch places, it’d have been better to do it later.

    Besides, 3 other drivers had problems with the gearbox today. Can’t it happen to Red Bull too?.

    I don’t buy it.

    1. Here are my two cents. No red bull didnt have to lie. But its the same thing as when you get home from a best friends bachellor party, and your wife asks you if you went to a strip club or if the strippers were hot, you reply saying that you didn’t go to any strip clubs because everyone was too drunk. You know you lied, she knows you lied, but everyone is happy.

      1. I voted no. But I could see why RB wouldn’t want to tell Vettel to let Webber through. Webber seems like the sort of guy that would rather come second than be handed a win. In the press conference, he even said it’s a shame it had been gifted it to him. Telling Vettel to pull over for him may be more damaging than good to Webber.

        1. i completely agree with cornflakes.. they disguised it from the drivers.. webber is too proud to have a race handed to him. im sure Seb wouldnt mind giving the victory away, but Mark doesnt want that. Full season with the fastest car, and he cant get a win, cant get 2nd in the drivers championship.. with such a dominating car. thats deflating. and if the team said.. seb, slow your car by a second a lap, so mark can win. thats basically shooting the guy when he is down. i dont think there was a gearbox issue at all.

      2. You don’t have to lie in such situations. You should say: “yes, they were very hot, but not as hot as you”.

        And THEN, everything will be okay… or no. But that’s another matter :P

        1. That may also be a lie. =)

    2. No.
      I don’t think Red Bull are so stupid. Team orders are legal, remember? Why harm Vettel’s race? He could’ve lost his podium position. It was clear Vettel changed gears early, so the problem was either real or Vettel thought it was real, or Vettel acted very well indeed.

  3. I see the reason to do this and not use an explicit team order simple… The drivers don’t have to be in on it.

    1. @john-h In that case, why didn’t they tell Webber in Silverstone he had a gearbox problem?

      1. @keithcollantine Good point… maybe they learnt their lesson not to do it so obviously like back then!

        I can’t really decide myself now, as you say it seems strange to do it so early in the race, but perhaps they didn’t want vettel to scamper miles into the distance. I’m guessing we’ll never really know.

        1. Wasn’t the Brazilian government the ones who threatened to bring criminal charges for rigging the race in response to Ferrari’s orders to Massa in Hockenheim last year? I know one country declared that last year and I thought it was Brazil.

          1. But that was because it was illegal last year.

            After that incident the FIA threw out the rule against team orders, so now it’s just part of the sport, no ground for any investigation other than Red Bull finding out how Vettel managed to get a gearbox without any oil to the finish!

      2. They had still races to do with that gearbox? Telling about gearbox problem and then continuing with same gearbox to the next race wouldn’t have made sense.

      3. I just doubt Vettel would listen to a direct order, but when your engineer tells you, that you must nourish the car, then you have to listen or risk DNF.

  4. give me a break, people! to me it is very clear that this was not on purpose. why would vettel let webber pass with such clarity? that didn’t give the aussie any satisfaction, which seemed pretty obvious after the race. i do believe vettel had a problem – he could have handed the victory over to webber without faking a problem, if he wanted to. the team might have played a trick on vettel, that option is unlikely, but possible – but it doesn’t seem to me that vettel was any part of it…

    1. Agreed. Occam’s Razor cuts through conspiracy theories pretty well. Most likely scenario? The simple one. Vettel had a gearbox problem and was ordered to let Webber by since that was the most prudent option.

      1. In this case Occam’s Razor cuts both ways, as both explanations are quite simple. We are just guessing here. I think calling it a conspiracy theory is a bit too much.

        1. The only thing I have to add is that if it was a ruse, then they should get an award for acting/lying. To me that complicates the situation and doesn’t make it simple. Telling the truth is simpler.

          1. As it turns out some journalists were shown the data from the gearbox and there really was a problem. As far as I’m concerned the matter is over. Red Bull presented the evidence and that’s enough for me.

            However your argument is still flawed. If you use Occam’s razor like that and if you assume that telling truth is simpler, then you will end up lied to a lot.

    2. I doubt Seb wanted to give Mark the satisfaction and I doubt he would listen to a direct order anyway.

  5. Comparing Webber’s body language right after parking his car, and then later when taking the podium, I’d say the matter passed his mind as well but was then settled to his satisfaction. I don’t think Red Bull faked Vettel’s problem.

    1. I was curious about the body language of both drivers and their behaviour towards each other (or lack of it) after the race and in the press conference.

      Not claiming to be any expert or doing anything beyond a bit of armchair psychology it seemed to me that the drivers were avoiding each other, Seb went back to his car instead of going onto the scales. There was no congratulations from Seb to Mark or vica versa… Both drivers seemed downbeat with regards to each other.

      Before the podium Mark and Jenson celebrated together in a clearly excited and friendly manner whilst Seb sulked at the back… I would have expected Seb to be in a celebratory mood if he given a Ayrtonesque drive to clinch 2nd place.

      In the press conference both drivers seemed rather downbeat for two drivers on the top steps of the podium.. Yes Brazil is a tough race but its not the only one on the calendar and both should have had reasons to celebrate…

      Maybe I am just reading to much into it, but I did find it odd when watching the post race coverage.

      1. I think you’re reading too much into it. I think the body language was one of disappointment for Vettel, who wanted to win (what driver doesn’t, especially after Abu Dhabi) and one of Webber not feeling he won a victory on equal terms (his teammate had to have a major problem).

        Vettel did come over straight away to congratulate Webber before Webber even put his steering wheel back on. I think Vettel was soaking up the last bits of a special season.

        As for Button and Webber, I think they are good mates off the track as well, I remember in Japan they went to a baseball together (Webber or Button twittered a pic about it). For sure Webber and Vettel aren’t buddy buddy, but I think they’ve found a workable professional relationship.

  6. I think they refrained from openly using team orders due to negative backslash. Especially since they made a big fuss last year how they won’t use team orders so openly using team orders to them is a bigger deal then to some other teams.
    We will probably never know for sure but I doubt Vettel had gearbox trouble, especially since he managed to post a fastest lap before his team reminded him of his gearbox troubles.

    1. Didn’t bother them in Silverstone, so I don’t know why it would now.

  7. vettel was 0.4s faster then webber before the problem, and 0.3s slower after that. In this case his difference is about 0.7s at a short interlagos lap.

    1. I feel we were robbed of a great battle for the lead when vet let WEB through… clearly vettel had enough pace to at least battle his team mate for a lap or two. if i remeber, VET set a fastest lap (at the time) very soon after he let WEB through

      1. Just goes to show how horsepower has nothing to do with speed of an F1 car, its all about aero! Shame isn’t it?
        VET could short shift, turn the engine down, and later on even went through corners in 4th instead of 2nd or 3rd gear, and still could keep ahead of McLaren and Ferrari!
        Shame we can’t have the old F1 cars back from the 1980’s, then we would see some REAL racing! :(

      2. But if he had battled for places with Webber, that might have helped either Button or Alonso to close up on the both of them.

        Not to mention it might have brought a quick end to Vettels race as well.

  8. Your reaching tbh if you think it was team orders.

  9. Maybe Red Bull weren’t hiding it from the public – maybe they were hiding it from Mark. They wanted Mark to get the boost from the win, and if he knew about team orders it wouldn hardly help his confidence.

    1. Which is what I’ve been saying for a while! You’ve hit the nail on the head @enigma

    2. That could be a possibility but he would eventually figure out the situation and probably hurt his confidence even more.

    3. Have to admit the comments here are making me laugh a bit, because IF Red Bull did do this on purpose but wanted to hide the fact, it seems to have worked! Is that proof enough? No, but I think they did rig the order, and did so fairly elegantly. Why? Because Vettel pulling over would have been (a) a bit humiliating for Mark, and (b) not a great way for the two-time champion to end his season. So, good job.

      Also I thought Hamilton backed off twice, off the grid when he a quick start but got stuck behind Webber: he could have pulled right but it would have thrown him towards Button. And then after the latter was passed by Alonso, Hamilton was close enough to Button to challenge but just sort of faded. Maybe nothing in it, but it made me think Hamilton was unlikely to do much in the race – even if he could, he wasn’t going to overtake Button just to let him past later.

    4. How separate are the two sides of the garage though? Does Ciaron Pilbeam have more allegiance to the team as a whole or his driver? I’m just wondering if they did keep it secret from all but Mark can’t one of his engineers just look at Vettel’s telemetry? And if they couldn’t would that not suggest there was something up and Mark would find out anyway?

    5. This seems like a viable theory (as is the whole she-bang indeed) however I would think Mark Webber has got more personal self-belief and no need for a nanny victory.

      We know he’s annoyed at being the ‘unofficial’ # 2 driver and I’ve no doubt he would make his opinions known if he suspected a fake victory.

      He’s one of the most outspoken drivers although probably silenced quite a bit through contractual clauses and a desire to drive the fastest car in F1. Enigmatic team-mate or not.

      He may have also resigned himself to the fact that Vettel is simply one of the fastest/greatest drivers ever in the sport.

  10. If Vettel had no problem he’d be up Webbers **** by the end, not 20 secs down

  11. Doesn’t anyone find it strange that his race engineer told him the exact same message (you have a serious gearbox problem) like 5 times? It certainly is suspicious, but as it stands now, it is impossible for us to decide wether or not this was a team order, so congrats to Mark.

    1. Christian Horner’s explanation was that the team had to keep telling Vettel not to push too hard. One of the messages followed Vettel setting fastest lap.

      There have been other instances where Vettel has had to be told to back-off – Canada 2010, for example, where he asked about the fastest lap and was told to forget it.

      1. exactly @Timg, Vettel has been very much prone not to heed calls from the team telling him to slow down and manage the car when he thinks he can get away with it.

        How many fastest laps were set after such a call this year?

        I think its just the team constantly reminding Vettel, that yes, he was in a good rithm with the car now, but please be carefull as we really do not know how long it will last.

    2. There have also been other instances this season when Red Bull pit radio informed Vettel repeatedly and very emphatically (almost in a syllabizing manner) of a serious problem — that somehow failed to materialize.

      Even at the risk of seeming conspiracy-minded, I have this impression of Red Bull that many times they carefully orchestrated fictitious problems and issues.

      One might ask, why would they do it. Well, for one thing, not to look too strong. F1 is very much about politics not to fear a backlash, say in the form of some intra-year regulation.

      For another, they had a large enough advantage throughout the year to play games just for the hell of it. Not everyone is a Ron Dennis automaton, and it’s not hard to imagine Vettel playing along.

      So for me, Yes.

      1. I really agree with this. I think Red Bull actually had a huge advantage for a lot of the season, but ‘dampened down’ the performance enough to stem the calls for them to be pulled back in someway.

      2. I’m going to be a conspiracy theorist here…

        What if Vettel DID have a gear box problem?
        What if really, they were telling him to slow down so that his car got to the end?

        I mean, it’s a bit far fetched, but anything is possible right?

        -.- I bet the FIA did this to help Ferrari too.

        1. hush, shhh thats a secret @mike

  12. If Vettel had a gearbox problem,then it sure wasn’t >RADIO to Vettel : VERY SERIOUS

    1. What would they radio to Hamilton??? …maybe “EXTRA EXTRA EXTRA SERIOUS”

      1. By the way, yes it was fake 100%

  13. Without the gearbox problem, RBR may have given the win to WEB near the end of the race, their motivation to do so is obvious. But I’d assume this was a real mechanical problem and therefore team orders were not required. The post-race press conference comments were consistent with the story as it unfolded. The diminishing gap between VET and BUT at the end justified a) letting WEB get ahead as soon as possible to keep him out of reach and b) VET pushing as hard as his gearbox would allow to stay in second.

    1. > Without the gearbox problem, RBR may have given the win to WEB near the end of the race

      That would’ve been too obvious and would’ve made Webber look like a pathetic incompetent. It would’ve a very bitter “victory” for Webber to swallow.

      No, Red Bull did it the right way: They let Webber go ahead early and show what he can do. Meanwhile, Vettel secured the second place and also would’ve acted as a moving roadblock if the competition got too close: spending their tires and energy while they were trying to overtake him.

  14. I will not for a second believe this sort of story before I see any hard evidence, and I put it in the same category as the conspiracy theories that have been floated during the course of this season that Red Bull were deliberately trying to frustrate Webber’s races at occasions.

    1. Could You be more specific about RBR trying to frustrate Webber? Which races and how did they try to do that?

      I understand that many think that conspiracy theories are completely ridiculous and for the most part I try to keep an open mind and agree until there’s solid evidence. But sometimes I get this feeling in the back of my head that somethings not right. That driver skill isn’t the only thing which determines which driver in a team gets the better result (apart from luck).
      With Mark Weber I’ve had conflicting thoughts. In the past it felt that he just doesn’t have as much talent as the best drivers, but last year he won several races (beating Vettel in the process) and led the championship. This year either Vettel improved massively and has reached a new level in performance or there are some pieces on Vettel’s car which are missing on Webber’ car.
      I suspect it has something to do with the additional downforce from using aggressive engine mapping which help Vettel find those extra tenths in Q3 and pull away at the start before DRS becomes active.

      I had a similar feeling of foul play when in India Schumacher and Rosberg were very close the whole race and on the last set of stops Shcumi had a great pit stop while Rosberg’s was about 3s slower (if I remember correctly) and that exactly the gap between them when Rosberg exited the pits.

      1. Additional downforce from aggressive engine mapping? Dude… seriously bending laws of physics with your comment there. Also, why would Brawn and Mercedes **** of Nico, who may still get a driver with top teams. Schumacher, as much as i like/ respect him, may drive for may be another 2-3 years, at best 5 max, but Nico may have more years in him, and may be more championships.

        Also, comment about some pieces missing on Webber’s car may hold true, but we will not know unless someone from within team (drivers or anyone else) confirms the same. We could say a lot of things, but Vettel did win 11 races. He also won at Monza in a STR. Meanwhile Webber is no slouch, but you could say that it is more plausible that the new car suited him more, than a possibility of RBR crippling Webber’s car. Don’t forget Webber is 6’2″ and he probably has to work twice as hard in that car than perhaps Vettel does. F1 is a physical sport, and more so if you can’t fit in the car rather well.

  15. Thanks for the chance to vote on this. Hopefully the FIA & RB may get to read the result.

    1. Why what would they learn? the general level of paranoia among f1 fanatics? The only thing funny about redbull today was rockys reply to vettel “you should be proud” the second vettel said “i feel like senna in ’91”

  16. Of course not.

    Talking about Vettel’s ability to set competitive lap times despite the gearbox problem, this is not the first time we see something like this. Remember the 2010 Malaysian Grand Prix? Here’s what Keith wrote in F1F’s team-by-team analysis then:

    Despite losing his clutch early in the race Alonso kept up with his rivals and often looked capable of lapping quicker than them. He ran the longest first stint of the race – 36 laps – and even with his gearbox problem set some of the quickest laps of the race.

    1. Very good point.

      However the fact that Webber really needed this win and the chance of Vettel braking Schumi’s record had now gone makes this one a little bit more suspicious.

      1. How so?

        Did Webber need the win?
        Wouldn’t it be easier for the team if Webber thinks he can’t even touch Vettel?
        And the fact that Vettel now can’t break Schumacher’s record is more of an against than a for argument, don’t you agree?
        What’s the one thing Vettel has been focusing on now?
        Correct, records.
        Vettel is too much of a winning man to give away victories, especially when that victory has no real value.
        Who cares that Webber finishes 3rd in the WDC now.

    2. Vettel did something similar on 3 brakes at Barcelona, Schmuacher could only catch him at 1.5 secs a lap by the end

  17. I think it was team orders. I think they disquised it so as not to crush Webber’s spirit. Just look at Massa as an example of how blatant team orders can affect you.

    Webber’s reaction after the race also leads me to believe he suspects so too. There was a lack of whooping and hollaring that we saw in 2009 and 2010.

    It was all too convenient for me.

    1. The guy who won only one race and that too because the guy ahead of him had mechanical issues and you expect him to do a Tarzan?

      1. Agreed.

        Webber knows he only won because of Vettel’s problems.
        He was pretty happy during the celebrations though, doing a spin as he lifted the trophy.

    2. I agree completely @MDJ

  18. 2010 – Monza, when Seb suddenly lose engine power and had to let Mark through it was immediately suggested that RBR were using team orders. We all know the end result.
    Some believe that since HAM had a gearbox failure and retired VET should also retire, failing that the result seems to be fixed in their eyes.

    1. no-one suggested team orders then, and the end result was Seb got a much better strategy and finished better than Webber that race!

      1. You should watch the race again and then comment, because I did

  19. It seems it was an actual gearbox issue. Redbull had no reason to cover-up team orders and it would make them look bad for doing so since they have already openly used team orders this season.

    Just a broke part.

  20. Vettel was reminded several times and they said it was a very serious problem. Contrary to what Horner and Vettel explained, the inboards showed no sign of short-shifting.
    In a circuit like Interlagos, loosing 2nd & 3rd gear would have result in a huge loss of time, and Seb even managed untroubled pit stops (pit stops are very demanding for gearboxes)
    On the other hand, it seems to me a needless, overcomplicated ruse for something that can be achieved with open orders, with more subtle indications or even easier, instructing Vettel before the race began.
    Weird

    1. You say that “in a circuit like Interlagos, loosing 2nd & 3rd gear would have result in a huge loss of time.”

      But he didn’t actually lose those gears; he just had to change up a little sooner than usual. And Coulthard said in the commentary that there were only two corners where he’d even use 2nd gear.

      1. Then I cant see any “very serious” problem. Regarding 2nd & 3rd, Im no expert, I follow De La Rosa and Marc GenĂ© remarks on Spanish TV coverage, but maybe “huge” is an exagerated translation of what they said. DLR was not for the “conspiracy theory”, but at the beginning he thought that with such a gearbox problem as the radio com suggested either VET would retire or he would lose a lot of time

        1. Well, he lost 0.7 seconds a lap and had serious trouble slowing down for a pit stop – to me it’s pretty clear he had an issue

  21. I doubt it. The “problem” came about very early when rain was still a threat, and the team would want to let the race run its course so as to be in the best position if the heavens opened.

    Anyway, gearbox problems, as you said, take many forms, and I think Hamilton was unlucky as much as Vettel was lucky. Therefore, kudos to Vettel for managing the problem for the majority of the race.

  22. If you’re going to quote a consipiracy theory, at least make it a good one!

    With those helmets and overalls on, we can’t tell who the drivers are anyway. I think Ferrari’s kidnapped Vettel and wants him to race for them. Red Bull put Vergne in the car, and used a body double for the podium poses.

    Of course, Vergne isn’t as fast as Vettel (yet). Horner knew the media would smell a rat. So he told everyone that the car had a gearbox problem.

    I’m surprised you needed me to clear that up – it’s obvious really, when you’re used to thinking like a lunatic. You’re welcome, though.

    1. That was awesome :D

  23. I think it was just a honest gearbox problem.
    It was a continent time he had a gearbox issue, but other drivers also had similar, or worse problems.
    And if they wanted Vettel to move over, I think they would have waited at least 2/3rd of the race distance before faking such a problem.
    I don’t think they would risk anything before the outcome of the race looked sort of sealed, with no real dangers from behind.

  24. No, Seb wouldn’t do it and I don’t think Mark would want it that way. I understand why the poll was done given how many fans are up for a conspiracy theory but I think any suggestion of it unfairly devalues Mark’s win, Seb’s character and the integrity of RBR without any real proof.

  25. Not that this will convince anyone one way or the other, but here’s Christian Horner addressing the issue: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96555

    1. Horner says:

      Anyone that listened to the conversation between the race engineers, or looked at the back of the garage at the amount of activity that was going on over that gearbox, would see it was genuine.

      Well, publish it then.

      1. Exactly my thoughts when I read that statement @keithcollantine!

  26. One reason why Red Bull might have wanted to disguise a team order was that maybe they wanted to spare Webber the public humiliation that his only win this year was a gifted one. Absolutely makes sense to then do it this way, if they’re gunning for 2nd in the WDC. During the podium ceremony I got the impression that Webber’s celebrations would have been more exstatic if he really finally managed to beat Vettel again, even if it had really been only by luck. Vettel shook hands with him on the podium and gave him a look like he wanted to say “Sorry but the team wanted it that way, even if you don’t like to be gifted a win by me …”

  27. This is the stupidest F1 conspiracy theory I have ever heard. Along with everything else, there is Vettel’s remark that ‘I feel like Senna in 1991’.

    Does anyone seriously think that Red Bull gave Vettel a team radio script to act out during the race?

  28. I’m not saying it was team orders, but I do think there’s a difference between ordering your drivers to hold their existing positions and ordering them to swap positions. The former is done in the best interests of the team to avoid the risk of a collision, whereas the later is clearly favouring one driver over another. I can see why Red Bull might feel comportable with publicly helping Vettel to the title, but not with arbitrarily deciding to gift a win to Webber for a less valid reason. But there’s no proof so we’ll probably never know.

  29. – there was no gearbox problem.
    – vettel couldn’t help but smile during the press conference talking about it, he isn’t stupid.
    – vettel didn’t know about it either before or during the race. he could only suspect.
    – it wasn’t blatant so that mark wouldn’t think he could only win with a team order.
    – as jean alesi or Ivan capelli said, a problem on the gearbox is always felt by the driver and the team is the last to know about it
    – it was implemented early in the race to avoid to create too many suspicions
    – for those who think this is crazy, think Singapore 2008.

    1. as jean alesi or Ivan capelli said, a problem on the gearbox is always felt by the driver and the team is the last to know about it

      Marc Gené said exactly the same

      1. Ino (@f1givesyouwings)
        28th November 2011, 10:43

        I’m not a racing driver, but the problem was overheating due to loss of oil, rather than actually missing a gear or something like that. Not sure if a driver can feel the overheating before the team sees it on the telemetry!

  30. I don’t think so. I remember Ted Kravitz mentioning seeing a huge amound of red area on the telemetry, and the gearbox was revealed to have practically no oil after the race.
    Genuine fault IMO.

    1. So where did all that oil go? On the race track? Isn’t it dangerous for other drivers to be racing on a track covered with oil? They knew they were endangering other drivers and didn’t care?

      Weird.

  31. Love that so many people on this site have said that Web has been the worst driver this year (re-watch China i dare you), given he hasn’t had a brilliant year, he knows that himself, which has only been amplified by his team mate having one of the best seasons ever by anyone. He is finally there to take the win and the conspiracy theorists go mad.
    I say it was a real fault, why would RBR hide it, im sure Marko would be like a little devil in Web’s ear if it had been a set up.

    1. Marko have been weird all weekend, and he was smiling after Webber won… I don`t if UK did it, but after the race htey showed footage of Rocky and Timmy (Vettel race and system engenier) and they were very happy talking about something very suspicious… normaly they will be very dull because they don`t like to do bad…

      1. after the race htey showed footage of Rocky and Timmy (Vettel race and system engenier) and they were very happy talking about something very suspicious… normaly they will be very dull because they don`t like to do bad…

        Or could it have been relief that Vettel made it to the end with a car they predicted wouldn’t last past half distance?

        1. @TimG

          You must be mad! :D

        2. @TimG Could be, but as an X-File fan I rather the conspiracy theories to go on :D

  32. I’m surprised this has gained enough momentum to even be considered!

    I see no reason why team orders might or would have been used – let alone covertly!

  33. chris goldsmith
    27th November 2011, 22:11

    the suggestion of a conspiracy is almost too ridiculous to be worth discrediting, but it really does make no sense. In order for Mark to get to second in the WDC, JB would need to finish outside of the points and FA well down the order. With the red bulls running first and second, they could have made a switch at any point. Why make a switch five laps into the race when there’s no reason to believe that JB was going to drop back? You’d expect them to wait at least until there was a suggestion it may be on the cards before making a decision.

    And why would they repeatedly tell Vettel to short shift urgently even when he was well behind Mark and not really gaining ground? There was nothing whatsoever to suggest that it was anything other than a gearbox issue. To think anything else is totally baseless and without evidence.

  34. Part of me looks at this and thinks it could have been an elaborate attempt to gift Mark a win, seeing as he said he didn’t want Vettel giving him races and the team need to boost his morale. Also, if the BBC were correct, unlike the other drivers with issues Seb’s gearbox was new since he ran a total of one corner in Abu Dhabi.

    But there are much easier ways to do this. “Accidentally” botch a pit stop, tell him to save fuel, or just pull a Ferrari. I think Seb had a problem, and Mark was close enough to capitalize. He drove a fantastic race, as did Seb to keep the car in the game. The team might have exaggerated the issue at most, but I don’t believe this was any sort of sneaky Horner business.

  35. I agree, with the general consensus that there no conspiracy here. It was too early in the race for it not to be a problem IMO.

    Also, I disagree with one the Against arguments, Senna lost bundles of time with no 4th gear! That was why Maldonado was swarming all over him.

  36. I think they did even though i have no proof. I say this for two reasons. Firstly to ensure their desire to get Mark second position in the championship. Two they did it covertly because they didn’t want to bruise Mark’s ego considering he’d been thrashed by his team mate all season. Its not a good morale booster for everyone to know that your only win of the season was handed to you by your team mate.

  37. the problem suddenly appeared as soon as both RBRs made a safe gap to Button …then Vettel whining on radio..oohhh i dont wanna loose any place…

    …they probably think people will eat that red ********

    the grande finale of this performance was Vettels post race comments…i feel like Ayrton Senna in 1991…

    what a disgrace for the sport this boy is !!!!!!!!!!!

    people lost hundrends of millions because noone would ever bet his money on Webber… a good % of this goes back to F1 via money loundry channels

    and still there are 60% of f1fanatic readers that believe this gearbox problem ****…

    i realy dont get it.

    1. i realy dont get it.

      No, it would appear not.

    2. You really don’t get “it”.

      It is all encompassing.

    3. If you bet on F1 fully knowing that teams are allowed to issue Team Orders then its just you being really naive (or stupid) Manu!

  38. I have a feeling the gearbox in question is already out of Brazil and we’ll never know what actually transpired. I also think that Webber’s lack of enthusiasm after the win was an indicator that he thought something was fishy. After going 20+ races without a win, I know I’d be more excited.

    1. I agree. I though exactly the same after listen to the team radio…

    2. Ino (@f1givesyouwings)
      28th November 2011, 10:47

      Yeah, Webber was definitely unenthusiastic about the win… http://www.autosport.com/gallery/photo.php/id/13289342 :P

      1. @Ino really every time Webber does that jump/face it cause me nightmares… he looks like a frog…

  39. God awful, erroneous excuse of “reporting” from you Keith.

    This site has really downhill.

    1. Which parts are erroneous?

    2. Well I’ll get right to work on that long list of errors you’ve pointed out.

      Oh wait, you haven’t given any.

      It’s easy to throw cheap criticisms and lazy insults around. If you want to be taken seriously, explain what you’re objecting to.

    3. There is nothing wrong with this article. Keith provides the official story along with his opinion, which does not contradict the official story whatsoever. Go to formula1.com if you’re only interested in press-releases.

    4. I think its great that a. @keithcollantine gives the arguments for either of the sides of the discussion and b. allows us to vote on it to see what the fans here think and even c. let us discuss it in the comments.

      You are welcome to join in, please tell us what you voted and your arguments for doing so. Your current comment is a good example of the kind that really bring down the pleasure of being here “Oliver12”

    5. I guess Oliver12 isn’t going to get back to us with his list of grievances. I’m hardly surprised.

  40. OK, bored of this now. How long until pre-season testing?

  41. It clearly wasn’t a team order. Why would they try to cover it up if orders are legal?
    I don’t see any reason why they would try to cover it up from the public.
    The only person I can see that red bull would try to cover it up from is Webber himself, who had said he didn’t want any help.

    1. Not to made Webber feel bad? so nobody can tell directly to him “so Mark liked Seb early xmass gift?”

  42. The race was that dull (by 2011 standards) people have to find something interesting to talk about.

  43. Oh I have been dying all day… I was on a plane at the moment of the race and only saw last 10 laps and I have been without Internet all day… but conspiracy theories FTW!

    I think it was team orders… and Webber reaction to the win saids it all… even Latin American comentors were saying so…

  44. macca1977 (@)
    28th November 2011, 1:30

    I think it was team orders, why else would Vettel gave the position to Mark like he did ? with no fighting at all ? if he had a problem and felt he was able to keep going at the pace he had before, why he would resign his position so soon and so evident ?
    Also why hide it ?, because it was the last race, the team order would let Mark advance a position or even two positions in the WDC standings. They were going to be criticized a lot more if they gave the order by radio in the last race of the season and the only reason was to promote his second driver.

  45. Check out Mark Webber’s comments at the press conference:

    When I started to take a pretty big chunk out of him per lap, I thought something might have been going down and then Ciaron informed me that he had a gearbox problem and I think I could smell it a little bit when I got close, and there was also a little bit of fluid. Normally, that’s a nice feeling… OK, it was mixed obviously for me, because there was the chance to get the win but I know how hard the guys worked on Seb’s gearbox last night because it wasn’t completely smooth. They got it together but it turned out, obviously, in the end that something’s let them down.

    Seriously Mark is such a straight-talking guy, I’m sure he wouldn’t be saying all these if they weren’t true.

    1. And again, Mark’s comments when they were asked by a reporter about a possibly rigged gearbox issue:

      I’ve agreed with you many times this year, but not this time.

      The whole press conference actually, if you guys have the time, go have a read! :)

  46. I think this was a covert operation. Full stop. I knew it from the second it happened.

    There are a few reasons Red Bull did it this way instead of just switching their cars around ala Ferrari:

    1) Red Bull want to keep their credibility intact. They know that Ferrari fans hated it when Rubens and Michael used to switch places. They feared the public backlash more than anything else.

    2) They wanted to make Seb Vettel look great. They wanted him to stay out there and race with a ‘very serious gearbox issue’. Like Seb said, he wanted to be like Aryton 20 years back.

    3) Red Bull wanted their fans to think that Webber is a good driver in his own rights and deserves to be there at the team.

    4) Red Bull were having some fun. Since the WDC’s over, they couldn’t have anything better to do. Imagine the satisfaction of having pulled off a heist in front of millions of adoring F1 fans!

    However, if I were Webber, I’d be gutted with these sort of antics. If anything, this will be more damaging to me in the long run. I will know that for me to win, the team had to neutralise the threat from Seb. Ouch…

    1. +1

      4) Red Bull were having some fun. Since the WDC’s over, they couldn’t have anything better to do. Imagine the satisfaction of having pulled off a heist in front of millions of adoring F1 fans!

      This team had been about fun all weekend… I agree with the comment

      1. Yeah, really guts of them to give Vettel an oil leaking gearbox and see how he would manage! Surely they were having some betting going on in the team how far he would get with that. :-D
        (Marko probalby won by betting Vettel to finish and stay in 2nd)

        Great joke Himmat

        1. I bet Timo Glock lost by betting on Seb winning the race ;)

  47. I wouldn’t be surprised if at some point early on Vettel thought it may have been a disguised team order, especially when he was told to short shift all the gears. And there was probably a level of frustration Vettel had to deal with and wanting to drive the heck out of the car and let the gear box fail.

    But then he did the smart thing, listened to his team and the whole “I’ll have to let Mark pass”. If he wasn’t going to be fast enough, there’s no reason to fight with his teammate. I’ve seen Hamilton pull aside for Button in a similar situation in Japan (this year or last year, I forget which).

    But it was clearly legitimate. During the latter part of the race, there was a shot of Vettel going up pass turns 13 and 14 and you could see that his rear light was flashing. The BBC guys commented on it, that he may have selected inters on his steering wheel which would also set the engine mapping to accelerate more slowly (which in the wet you would want to do).

    In the post race press conference Vettel also said that eventually he would only go down to 4th gear (staying away from 2nd and 3rd) and which lead to his quip of feeling like Senna in 1991.

    One area where I think RB decided to live with this result (Webber taking the win) was not putting Vettel on a strategy of going one less stop than Webber. If he had to go slower, his tires may have also lasted longer and he may have been to jump Webber.

    I think Vettel did an amazing drive to nurse the car home in 2nd all things considered.

  48. Does that make all the problems Mark has had this season a conspiracy too? Why are these conspiracies only one sided? Mark has suffered numerous KERS issues and lets not forget his starts.

    1. Webber was never in a position to thereaten Seb all year. The only time he outshone Seb was in Germany.

      What you’re saying holds no water as I’d only buy it if Webber was matching Seb’s pace. But that wasn’t the case all year. Vettel’s just blown him off….

      1. Webber destroyed Seb in China pace wise, also at Spa Webber looked extremely strong on the primes matching Seb on the options. Webber has also got a few pole positions this year but lost out with his starts. To make out as if there is a large gap between them is absurd. There is a pace difference on some circuits and a luck difference on most.

        1. There has been a large gap between them this year. In Belgium, Vettel was taking it easy, having dominated the field. He could have pulled out an extra gap over Webber if he wanted to. A difference of 10 wins and 12 poles just isn’t luck.

  49. Also when Vettel came into the pits the gearbox was making very strange sounds according to the commentary team. I’ll give it the benefit of the doubt, there is no chance Vettel would go along with this if he knew.

  50. What made me suspicious about some kind of team orders was the fact that Vettel gave up his position too easily to Mark Webber. Then afterwards his lap times were very fast and consistent. Through his onboard camera I didin’t notice any change in the way he was shifting the lower gears. If Vettel was already the World Champion and RBR had already won the Constructors Championship, then why Vettel gave up so easily and didn’t fight to defend his leadership even at the expense of a possible DNS which in any case it would have not affected him or BRB in any way?

    On the other hand, it was “very convenient” to have Mark winning this GP for several obvious reasons. That is why this gearbox issue made me and a lot of people smell something fishy about it.

    1. Perhaps VET was wanting to finish the race rather than post another DNF so he chose to let Mark go. They are in the same team after all.

  51. Though i said no opinon I honestly think team orders were in place. Why? because,
    1) Gearbox issue short shift, was not convincing especially cause vettel wasn’t really short shifting.
    2)Seb feels like he is senna from 91 (No seb, you aren’t. He finished the race in one gear and won.).
    3)If he was short shifting, button should’ve caught up to him even faster, he couldn’t.
    4)He set the fastest lap of the race at one point.
    5)Webber who won the only race of the season, comes out of the car, waves and leaves. If it was anyone else, he would’ve jumped on the car and done some own silly victory moves which he invented.

    Feels a lot like they coded the message so webber doesn’t feel bad about it, but webber realised it anyway.

    1. Ino (@f1givesyouwings)
      28th November 2011, 11:03

      Your points 1 and 3 are just opinions that you are presenting as facts. How did you figure out that he wasn’t shortshifting? And how much faster would you expect Button to be catching him? Vettel was much quicker than Button at the beginning of the race, and after his problem he started losing at least 0.5/lap. That’s quite a big difference.

      Seb’s comment about Senna was just a reference – I don’t think he was implying they were identical situations! he was racing at Interlagos and only using high gears, so he though of ’91. As someone else commented, do you really think RBR gave Seb a script to act out while driving, to make it sound more convincing?

      The Red Bull car was much quicker than McLaren and Ferrari at this track, and that’s why Vettel could manage a good pace even with his problem. Webber wasn’t pushing consistenly as he was pretty safe in P1. As the fuel went down, both Red Bulls went quicker and quicker, and that’s why at one of the laps Vettel got FL.

      Finally, if you watch the press conference or look at the photos from the podium (e.g. this one) you’ll see that Webber was pretty happy with his win. I wouldn’t expect him to go crazy as he realised it was another driver’s misfortune that helped him, and one win doesn’t change a whole season, but I got the impression he was pretty happy with it (and so he should be!).

  52. Didn’t Horner say before the Brazilian GP that Red Bull were less popular now? Clearly he is conscious of their image and decided in unison with Mateschitz that disguising the team order was a better option than making it open to avoid damaging their image further.

  53. No. Team orders are legal and as you pointed out Red Bull have shown prevously that they have no issues telling drivers what to do.

    Why have this debate, it’s not like Webber was over the moon after the race. I’m pretty sure he’d rather have taken Vettel on fair and square and lost that be gifted a win due to problems with vettel’s car.

  54. Rejkjavicsdottir
    28th November 2011, 6:09

    Webber would probably feel greatly insulted by an open team order for Vettel to let him by. He might be many things, the gritty Aussie, but he is not an Alonso to want his teammate to let him by.
    Which is why I think the gearbox problem didn’t exist: I don’t think Webber and Vettel knew that it was a fix, but I am pretty sure it was a fix anyway. Shame, then.

    1. You don’t think Vettel would want to have a look at the guts of the box after the race? You think Vettels mechanics would lie to Vettels face after the race to help Webber?

      1. @Alex W
        I can only agree. In Abu Dhabi that guy spend hours going through telemetry, footage etc. to find out what went wrong with the tyre.
        Even after he won the championship in Suzuka, straight after the initial celebrations he went to talk to his engineers to figure out why they just didn’t have the pace.
        I don’t think RB would be able to hide something like that for Vettel.

  55. I think yes.

    You can tell in Vettel’s radio comments. ‘I feel like Senna in 91’ means he thinks he can still win despite the gearbox issue (if it exists) and he WANTED to chase down Mark, but he kept being reminded about a ‘serious problem’. Red Bull is just denying it to make it look as authentic as possible. You can also tell by Mark’s press conference that he didn’t sound like a man who believed he just ‘won’ a race (but was given the win instead)

  56. Either way Webber trounced Hamilton in the WDC for the third year running (and would have regardless of “team orders”).

    1. @thecollaroyboys what’s that got to do with the article? Webber IS in a faster car than Hamilton – we should expect him to be ahead.

  57. I doubt RB would’ve used this as an excuse. They would’ve used team orders anyway. And the reason is so that Mark has the best chance of securing 2nd place in the WDC should something happen to Jenson and Fernando. A 1st and 2nd place in the WDC and 1st in WCC would’ve been the icing on the cake for Red Bull and they were justified in running team orders to allow Mark the chance.

  58. Don’t you guys realize that the whole sport is rigged? Bernie sits down with the sponsors in February and plans out the results for the entire season.

    The only glitch was when Michael Schumacher got hold of some dirty photos of Bernie back in 2000. Unfortunately he left them on a bus some time in 2005, and now Bernie is getting his revenge.

  59. Why on earth WOULD Red Bull use team orders?

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but the team that creates a fast car, specifically tailored to one guy, isn’t that Ferrari? Webber was 2nd at the time of Vettel’s gearbox problem, and Vettel clearly said that he would ‘not hold (Webber) up’. I’m not sure what that meant to everyone else, but it sounded to me as if he’d let his team-mate past so he can hold off Alonso/Hamilton/Button.

    Team orders are allowed now, why on earth would they code them? The entire idea that RB would use team orders in a way like that is absurd.

    I bet if Hamilton was in 2nd and came through to win after Vettel’s gearbox problem, everyone would be cheering and saying how he was always there.

    For the record, I hate Webber, but a win under any circumstances is a win, and Webber deserves full credit for this win.

  60. Personally I don’t think so they did,but even if they do I won’t be surprise.

  61. I think people are always looking for something but I think Vettel’s problem was genuine. The problem could be managed but it was also something that didn’t just fail straight away and collapse like Hamilton’s. This means that Vettel could still post quick laps which probably didn’t do the gearbox any good but meant that he would have to look after it a lot more in the later stages.

    I think you could tell from Vettel’s body language that he was quite relieved to have finished and would probably have looked a little peed off if he had to yield to Webber.

  62. Absolutely fake, and yes, the person that was not in on it was Mark. An almost new gearbox which never actually failed, Vettel able to hold a defensive position in 2nd helping Mark to keep 3rd place in the championship – Vettel even able to make the comment about his similarity to Senna with a broken gearbox – all planned before the event and executed to perfection. Anything with visible team orders would have (as before) left many with a bad feeling about the team at the end of a fantastic year for them. They were never going to do it and Mark would never had accepted it.

  63. I’m not at all convinced by the claim Red Bull pretended Vettel had a gearbox failure and kept it a secret from Webber to ‘boost his spirits’.

    Many of the people working on Vettel’s car would have known if the problem was fake or not and it wouldn’t have taken five seconds for the information to spread to the other side of the garage.

    1. Keith, it would be good to know the nature of the problem. The whole car can be run well, badly or not at all from a laptop. Was there actually a physically broken or significantly worn component for all to see or were there a bunch of sensors showing that things were not good in a software program developed by Red Bull? If Red Bull decided that it wanted to play out a strategy delivering what happened on Sunday then it would do a good job on it (as always) – including making sure that it had all it’s ducks in a line after te event.

  64. Glenn Freeman says people working for Autosport have been shown data from Vettel’s car and “are satisfied Vettel’s gearbox problem was genuine”.

    http://twitter.com/glenn_autosport/statuses/141087741688557569

    1. Conclusive evidence I’d say.

      More evidence than the pessimists can come up with.

      But I’m sure they’ll turn this one around by saying Autosport was in on the whole thing…

  65. I love it – if Red Bull are faster than anyone, there’s something illegal on their car. If they have an issue, it’s staged. They probably staged the puncture last time out to give Vettel a rest yeah?

    The gearbox issue didn’t stop Vettel from going fast – it didn’t affect performance. Apparently there was hardly any oil in the gearbox by the end so to keep temperatures down, he was told to short shift. If he didnt, there was a risk the gearbox would fail but on several occasions, Vettel went for it and pulled out a good lap time. As soon as this happened, he was warned to slow down.

    Red Bull regularly tell Vettel to not go for a FLAP on the final lap but he does it anyway… The gearbox problem needed managing and Seb kept ignoring them so they said it was a serious issue and that he had to slow down.

    You could see when he pitted, the car spluttered to a stop – there was clearly an issue.

  66. Why cover team orders up? Because the fans dont like team orders, we want to see racing and Christian Horner knows how unpopular team orders are. Remember eveytime we have seen team orders this year and last, fans were annoyed. Also Why do Red Bull tell Mark to hold station behind Hamilton and Alonso this year, kind of annoying we want to see racing till the end

    1. If Webber can’t overtake/beat Alonso and Hamilton, it’s because they’ve outdriven him, not because he’s been told to hold station.

  67. Some people said, look at Vettel he can nurse a broken gearbox to the end and Hamilton can’t. Gearbox issues are always going to be different. But think about it, Hamilton was going all out, he wasn’t doing any nursing, Whereas Vettel was doing what his engineers told him and Hamilton had nothing to lose, its the end of the season, whereas Vettel would have liked a 1-2

  68. Eternal Newbie
    28th November 2011, 13:36

    Unless some of the few people at RBR who are in a position to know leaks out we’ll never know for sure. But it is highly suspicious.

    Yes, TO are legal now, but RBR got a lot of flak earlier this year for issuing them at Silverstone, after having said that they’d never do that. Also, a direct TO would have left Mark Webber badly exposed. So RBR had good reasons to disguise it.

  69. Genuinely surprised to see most people agree with RBR on this one!

    Can we frame this poll at put it up at F1 Fanatic HQ? ;)

    Seriously though, I don’t think there was anything to it. It took a while for it to click but when I realised that Webber was within a reasonable distance of Vettel I did think, ‘hmm, this is a little convenient’. I dread to think what Twitter was like at the time, so I avoided it!

    Their reason was plausible and I think the nature of the RBR on high-downforce tracks would have negated some of the time Vettel lost due to short-shifting. Anywhere else, he may have suffered more.

  70. I don’t believe in so many coincidences. Team orders very badly disguised.

  71. Essentially the RedBull team showing their gratitude to Mark. He played his part in the team, so here is the RB team saying thanks. Hat’s off to Seb for his part and giving Mark credit for being a (even if reluctant) supportive team mate.

  72. There is something in it that makes me feel it was a disguised team order. Redbull doesn’t want people to hear direct team orders of letting someone pass on track. They’ve done orders for Webber not to attack Vettel but there weren’t any orders before allowing the lead driver to let the other driver past. Not disguising it would just make Redbull look bad in front of F1 fans even if team orders are already legal… People would openly criticize their perfect season and they don’t want that to happen. So I think it was a beautifully executed team order and they planned it before the race.

  73. YES

    The team orders had to be disguised. They were kept secret from Webber in order for him to get his motivational boost.

  74. Webber said he believes it because he could smell there was a problem with Vettel’s gearbox and he noticed it leaking oil.
    So unless Red Bull deliberatly gave Vettel a faulty gearbox (as I’m sure the pessimists will believe in a heartbeat) I see no reason why to suspect Red Bull pulled one over on us and Webber.

    It’s a shame to see so many frustrated ‘fans’ here who try to make a conspiracy out of everything Red Bull does.

    Now I’m also reading that Red Bull deliberately played down their own speed during the season as to not look too dominant…

    Come on, can’t you guys take a step back to see the whole picture instead of just saying what you thinks makes your favorite driver/team look better?

    1. Thanks for this, I hadn’t seen anything from Webber suggesting that – can you post a link, it be interesting to read his version of events….

  75. Positive that Vettel had no problem with his gearbox why you may ask, because Webber was too quiet on the podium and he said in the press conference that it would have been nice to have a battle with Sebastian.

  76. Deutscher Schäferhund
    30th November 2011, 19:17

    This was a humiliation for Webber, even won no race in the year would be better for Webber…

    I love Vettel, another winner german, but compare itself with Ayrton Senna by a fake problem…

    Sorry for my english

  77. No.

    I suppose all F1 driver knows how their cars work. I mean, look at Vettel in the last race, even after his early end from his race, he went to check his rear wheel, talk to the engineer, try to understand the cause.
    Given that, I doubt Red Bull can hide the secret from Vettel, if not Webber. And I think Webber would be curious to understand his teammate’s problem too.

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