Sebastian Vettel, Red Bull, Monza, 2013

Vettel well clear ahead of rivals in second practice

2013 Italian Grand Prix second practicePosted on | Author Keith Collantine

Sebastian Vettel, Red Bull, Monza, 2013No one could get within six-tenths of a second of Sebastian Vettel during the second practice session at Monza.

Vettel’s quickest time on hard tyres was faster than anyone else could manage on mediums. When he put the softer tyres on he trimmed his time by three-tenths of a second to head the charts on a 1’24.453.

The world champion was the only driver to post a sub-85 second lap. Mark Webber made it a one-two for Red Bull, bouncing back from a KERS problem at the beginning of the session to set a best time of 1’25.116.

He was followed by the two Lotus drivers, both of which set laps which were identical to the nearest thousandth of a second. This was despite Kimi Raikkonen running the longer-wheelbase version of the E21 while Romain Grosjean used the conventional car.

Fernando Alonso put his Ferrari in the top five, albeit 0.877s off Vettel after running wide at Lesmo 2 during one of his runs. Several other drivers went off during the session.

Among them was Lewis Hamilton, who ran wide at the exit of Parabolica, as Raikkonen also had earlier on. Hamilton ended the session sixth followed by team mate Nico Rosberg.

Felipe Massa was eighth despite pitting before the end of the session with a gearbox problem. The two McLaren drivers completed the top ten, both over a second off the flying Vettel.

Pos. No. Driver Car Best lap Gap Laps
1 1 Sebastian Vettel Red Bull-Renault 1’24.453 39
2 2 Mark Webber Red Bull-Renault 1’25.076 0.623 39
3 7 Kimi Raikkonen Lotus-Renault 1’25.116 0.663 36
4 8 Romain Grosjean Lotus-Renault 1’25.116 0.663 40
5 3 Fernando Alonso Ferrari 1’25.330 0.877 38
6 10 Lewis Hamilton Mercedes 1’25.340 0.887 39
7 9 Nico Rosberg Mercedes 1’25.367 0.914 42
8 4 Felipe Massa Ferrari 1’25.519 1.066 29
9 5 Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes 1’25.532 1.079 42
10 6 Sergio Perez McLaren-Mercedes 1’25.627 1.174 39
11 14 Paul di Resta Force India-Mercedes 1’25.830 1.377 40
12 12 Esteban Gutierrez Sauber-Ferrari 1’25.888 1.435 40
13 15 Adrian Sutil Force India-Mercedes 1’26.028 1.575 37
14 16 Pastor Maldonado Williams-Renault 1’26.138 1.685 36
15 18 Jean-Eric Vergne Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1’26.224 1.771 32
16 11 Nico Hulkenberg Sauber-Ferrari 1’26.385 1.932 43
17 19 Daniel Ricciardo Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1’26.599 2.146 43
18 17 Valtteri Bottas Williams-Renault 1’27.198 2.745 44
19 23 Max Chilton Marussia-Cosworth 1’27.548 3.095 37
20 20 Charles Pic Caterham-Renault 1’27.696 3.243 37
21 21 Giedo van der Garde Caterham-Renault 1’27.771 3.318 38
22 22 Jules Bianchi Marussia-Cosworth 1’28.057 3.604 32

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105 comments on “Vettel well clear ahead of rivals in second practice”

  1. Looks like another boring Vettel-weekend ahead.

    1. Yeah, I’m afraid you’re right. The 2014 rule changes can’t come fast enough for me. At least there is a chance things will get shaken up and provide a little mystery for us.

    2. why is a weekend boring just because vettel may win?

      vettel may well run away at the front but with 21 other drivers racing over 21 other places, no race is ever boring!
      vettal ran away & hid at spa 2 weeks ago yet it was still a great race with lots of good racing taking place throughout the field.

      if you only care about the lead & who wins then your not really watching the race, your just watching the lead.

      1. Let me tell you in vettel’s own way :

        OBVIOUSLY , it matters who wins

        1. But a race won by Vettel can be fun to watch ;)

          1. Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo…………………… :-P

          2. It can be, but usually isn’t.

          3. Since we have to watch that cocky finger on the way ou tof the car and podium…. no it’s actualy very anoying…

      2. Spa last week was not a great race. It was one of the least interesting ones so far this year. A few motorway passes and no battle for the lead. The qualifying session was more thrilling!

        I’m not saying that Vettel winning by miles ensure that a race will be boring but it certainly takes one potentially exciting element out of the equation.

      3. WilliamB (@william-brierty)
        6th September 2013, 15:28

        F1 is to some extent about unpredictability. The gripping nature of the fact that literally anything could happen every a car goes out on track is one of the great appeals of the sport. When you know pretty much who is going to win by FP2, that takes away that great appeal.

        However, you are right, Bahrain, for instance, was a thoroughly entertaining race, despite the fact that there was absolutely no battle for the lead whatsoever. But there is another factor coming into play here. If Vettel can win at a canter, which he almost certainly will on Sunday, then is it really a challenge?

        F1 is the pinnacle of motorsport, and is meant to be the ultimate challenge for the best drivers, engineers and designers in the world, but is a grand prix weekend a challenge anymore for Vettel and Red Bull? It’s almost like its just an elongated test weekend that culminates in a champagne afternoon tea on Sunday…oh, and there are 21 other guys on track.

        I don’t suppose you remember a rather outrageous interview Ross Brawn gave in 2003, in which he essentially admitted that the F2002 was so far ahead of its rivals that development was stopped prematurely because of the points gap and that they often sacrificed performance in their setup to make the car easy to drive. I really hope that scenario doesn’t reemerge with Vettel and Red Bull in the final chapter of this season. Instead of a cruise to the flag, it would be nice to Vettel under a modicum of pressure.

        1. I really hope that scenario doesn’t reemerge with Vettel and Red Bull in the final chapter of this season.

          Irrespective of how dominant Red Bull, namely Vettel, has been, I highly doubt that would be the case. The grid compared to the grid a decade ago is closer and more competitive, McLaren and Williams were Ferrari’s only challengers while Red Bull now has Ferrari, McLaren, Lotus and Mercedes, the latter two more recently, to compete with. Car development, another factor, is substantially more finite than a decade ago with in-season testing all but limited greatly, a foot off the throttle pedal for Red Bull would be almost suicidal for their title aspirations.

        2. The gripping nature of the fact that literally anything could happen every a car goes out on track is one of the great appeals of the sport.

          F1 has never been high on unpredictability. The chance of a Caterham winning on Sunday is close to nil, isn’t it? There is a very high probability that one of five drivers will win the next race – since only five drivers have won a race so far this season. Even before the season begun you could have – and bookies did – make some pretty accurate predictions about which drivers stood a half-way decent shot at the WDC.

          One of the things about F1 which IS very predictable is the way so many fans completely overreact to every single up and down over the course of the season. After Friday practice at Spa ..” Red Bull are unbeatable!”. After Saturday qualifying … “Mercedes are very quick!” After Sundays race … Red Bull are unbeatable!” Rather like the way after the Hungarian GP everybody was going “Hamilton can win six more races and take this title race down to the wire!”

          Nothing has changed from what it was yesterday, or even from a few hours ago. In all probability Mercedes will lock out the front row tomorrow. (And then we’ll hear once again about how amazed they are) Nobody knows what Sunday will bring, mostly because it’s expected to rain.

        3. WilliamB (@william-brierty)
          6th September 2013, 19:50

          @younger-hamii The real difference between now and a decade ago in terms of the field spread is the size of the gaps between the cars. Back then it was not unusual to have 6 or even 7 tenth differences between teammates in qualifying, however now being 0.3 slower than your teammate is rather shameful. Also engineers in the early 2000s had a much bigger window of adjustment to work in, so it was relatively easy to gain say 0.5 with setup, and the inconsistent nature of the grip from the grooved tyres meant that a driver could go and find much larger chunks of time than a they can now. F1 is much more professional now, and F1 teams operate much closer to their optimum for a much greater percentage of the time, meaning that gaining even a small amount of time on another team is extremely difficult.

          On a separate note, lets assume the championship is in similar state after the Singapore GP, the race where most teams plan to bring their final 2013 package. Are Ferrari, Mercedes and Lotus going to continue 2013 development with the imposing prospect of 2014 looming ahead? No. Is it therefore much of a penalty if Red Bull also cease their 2013 development? No.

          @jonsan You reckon F1 is predictable? How many people would have bet on McLaren having zero podiums in 2013 by 12th round of the season? How many people would have predicted a win for Alonso at the 2012 Malaysian GP? Or for Maldonado at the 2012 Spanish GP? How many people would have predicted that on a super hot, rear limited race track Hamilton would take his first win of the season by over 12 seconds, having had a car that had eaten its tyres only a few weeks before? F1 is never predictable. What is predictable though, is that the incredible race pace Red Bull and particularly Vettel will be nigh on unbeatable, grid slot regardless.

          If you absorb these passing media fads, then I’m afraid you either listen too much to Johnny Herbert or Simon Lazenby on Sky F1, or you visit the BBC F1 page at take it remotely seriously. In the measured, subjective world of Autosport and of F1 Fanatic these things are simply accepted as minor fluctuations or diversion from the main course of F1 2013; that of Vettel and Red Bull domination.

          I most definitely agree with you when you say nothing has changed. Red Bull still have the fastest car, as they had in Spa, Hungary, Germany and so on. And nothing would have changed from the previous three qualifying sessions if Hamilton takes his fifth consecutive pole, because it would still be an illustration of how Hamilton’s immense qualifying pace can flatter car that has in fact been behind the Red Bull in qualy trim since Silverstone. Indeed, we don’t know what will happen on Sunday, especially if it rains, but we do know that Vettel was on pole in the wet in Australia, Malaysia and Canada, and is arguably the grid’s finest wet weather driver, so I doubt even rain could dampen the a weekend that is turning out to be “The Sebastian Vettel Show” once again.

          1. @william-brierty I’m not convinced at all that the Mercedes hasn’t been the fastest qualifying car since Silverstone: Rosberg ran into trouble in Germany, Hungary we only really had Vettel and Hamilton as benchmarks and in the wet (as they had a wet set-up) Mercedes were faster. Sure, Red Bull may have closed the gap since Silverstone but by no means is it conclusive that Red Bull have had a faster car in qualifying.

          2. if Hamilton takes his fifth consecutive pole, because it would still be an illustration of how Hamilton’s immense qualifying pace can flatter car that has in fact been behind the Red Bull in qualy trim since Silverstone.

            Wow. It’s true what they say – denial isn’t just a river in Egypt.

      4. Is boring because there is no competition in the top. Not Vettel’s fault anyway.

        1. It’s Newey’s fault then.

          1. It’s Ferrari, Mercedes, Lotus and Mclaren’s fault

        2. Just like it’s Usain Bolt’s fault that the 100m is a foregone conclusion at a big world championship. Unless Bolt is screwing around and not training, it’s pretty much a race for 2nd place. But at least in the 100m, the broadcasters can’t cut everyone else out of the TV frame!

          1. @daved
            “But at least in the 100m, the broadcasters can’t cut everyone else out of the TV frame!”

            actually, when Vettel is way out in the front, you rarely see him on the tv feed.

          2. Yep, and that’s the ironic part. You don’t really even get to see “Bolt”, because he’s usually out of the frame…instead you get to watch the two guys going for 2nd place and nobody else LOL

      5. if you only care about the lead & who wins then your not really watching the race, your just watching the lead.

        Considering the feed we get here in America only shows the car in front and maybe one or two other close actions during the day…what choice do you think I have? LOL

        We don’t get multiple feeds or an intelligent enough provider to provide us with more information or different cameras to watch the action. I’d LOVE to see what is going on with Bianchi in the back as I think the kid has some skills that would go well with a better car.
        I Love the Hulk…but I’m lucky if he enters the frame for 30 seconds during the race.

        I sit and stare at the live telemetry numbers on the internet like some poor geek in a Matrix re-hash, trying to pick out what’s going on.

        1. Everybody gets the same live video from the FOM, and I don’t recall it being too heavy on Vettel coverage at Belgium.

    3. Some rain could still save it.

      1. Ask Mercedes about rain . They will tell you how bad it can be when you want it and it does not arrive.

    4. Ferrari needs a quali, if Alonso makes it two second row he will be in front before first pit stops and maybe Mercedes finds some pace overnight, we never know.

      1. I am definitely one of those who appreciates that anything can happen in a race and often does, so I don’t get that freaked about someone ‘always’ running away with it. That said, I also would rather not see a Championship decided with a handful of races still to go in the season, but sometimes that’s just how it works out. Of course it is always more exciting if the WDC isn’t decided until the final race and is with at least 2 drivers having a reasonable shot, but no series can ever guarantee that.

        My thing on this really is …. when it looks like SV may run away with this weekend and thus the season, and of course it’s only practice and we don’t know, but let’s say this weekend and for the next race or two most people start to get the impression SV won’t be interrupted from another WDC, then why do they need these gadgety tires and DRS that most people seem to totally disagree with? ie. Obviously these things are not stopping a driver from making it look like a cakewalk and possibly making the season look like one too, so they should at least get away from the fake, manufactured passing that the gadgety tires and DRS provide, and figure out a better formula. And I don’t think it should have to take a whole revamp of engines and chassis to do that. If in fact that even does the trick. I think ultimately F1’s addiction to downforce has to be curtailed.

    5. It’s not Vettel’s fault that other teams can’t compete.

      1. People need to realize this

        1. I don’t think anyone is blaming SV.

          1. You may be surprised

  2. Chris (@tophercheese21)
    6th September 2013, 14:35


  3. Mark Webber had a KERS problem

    Every Formula 1 story should start with that line, and then go from there. They could just cut and paste that quote and make it the first line to get it out of the way because it’s inevitable. And every post race story could also add the line:

    Webber had a terrible start and lost at least 3 positions

    1. LOL, thanks for the chuckle @daved

  4. OK, that was impressive from Vettel. Looks like he wants to put an end to the WDC fight asap

    1. He had especially great speed through Parabolica, which is not surprising, but since it’s practice who knows what fuel was in which car. His long run pace looked good, the tyres barely gave up .. yet I’ll only give up on the Ferrari 1-2 on sunday around 15:30 (local time) ;)

      1. My money is still on Alonso to win it. Maybe I’m in denial but Ferrari pace at Spa was encouranging.

  5. Well, at least the Mercs could hide some speed.

  6. If the RBR is faster at Monza then either

    a) They have fine tuned their car to the speed tracks compared to the Aero Tracks of Asia. so there is a chance that they are not fast in the Aero tracks of Asia. That is good news for rivals.


    b) They have fined their car too well that it is fast even in a circuit like Monza which is definitely not great news for rivals.

    1. WilliamB (@william-brierty)
      6th September 2013, 15:08

      @tmax Unfortunately it is definitely b). Red Bull have arguably done the least of all of the top teams to tune their aero package to the high speed tracks of Spa and Monza, and aside from trimming the wing angles, adopting a “tea-tray”, reducing the area of the uppermost element of the front wing and a new nose cone, their aero package is largely the same as it was in Hungary. That most emphatically does not bode well for the remainder of the season.

    2. If you check the top speed of Red Bull and compare it to the others you’ll see the following stats:

      Ferrari qualyfing trim (empty fuel tank): 336 Kph
      Ferrari race trim (top fuel) during the long stint: from 319 to 324 Kph

      Mercedes qualyfing trim: 337 Kph
      Mercedes race trim: from 321 to 324 Kph

      Red Bull qualyfing trim: 328 Kph
      Red Bull race trim: 328 Kph

      Quite interesting stats…

    3. @tmax @williambrierty is pretty much spot-on: Red Bull simply slim down the rear wing (not even the front) and bam, they have a quick car on high speed circuits. It’s all due to the diffuser – since they run consistent downforce at the rear of the car, they don’t even have to touch the front on high-speed tracks. So sadly for the championship battle, their car is quick everywhere. Everywhere.

  7. WilliamB (@william-brierty)
    6th September 2013, 15:02

    In F1, you are only ever giving pressure of receiving it, and there are quite a few guys out there under a lot of pressure at the moment.

    Raikkonen is suffering amidst the swirling rumours regarding his future, and is about sign a contract crucial in deciding whether he will able to fight for the championship in future years.

    Alonso is seeing an ever widening rift between him and senior Ferrari players put his future under threat, whilst he is having to face the reality of watching Sebastian Vettel take the championship for the fourth consecutive year.

    Rosberg is struggling to keep a can on Hamilton, and despite his meticulous nature and diligence, is struggling to match the speed of his teammate, who is equally struggling to understand an all new brake material.

    Massa has all but been written off for a Ferrari drive my the media for the fourth year in succession, and is being linked not to a scarlet F1 car but to a comfy retirement home.

    Button is having to face the prospect that he is wasting arguably the finest years of his career waiting for the Honda engines to arrive in 2015, and is facing the prospect of another potentially challenging year in 2014.

    One man is exempt. Liberated from the pressure of championship rivals breathing down his neck, the tyre degradation Red Bull suffered early in the season and the prospect of having Raikkonen sat across from him next year, Sebastian Vettel’s geoxs must be a very comfortable pair of shoes to be in. He is staring a fourth championship in the face whilst heading to a series of tracks that he has dominated on in previous years, and is driving a car that seems to be getting better and better with each race, and is looking set for another win in Monza.

    The championship is over, and Red Bull look set to rock up to every grand prix remaining this year with a car comfortably quicker than the opposition, but to those that think F1 is now boring, I disagree. F1 is now predictable, not boring. However to throw some spice back into the mix, to put Vettel under the pressure he is so alien to, there are a few unpredictable factors surrounding next year. Enter the 2014 regs, James Allison and hopefully a Daniel Ricciardo that is super quick…

    1. The tale is nice .. is there a twist somewhere, I wonder ?

      1. I agree, lost my time here ^^

    2. Oh, wow. We have just seen FP2 in Monza and you are already saying that Vettel will win everything from here to the end of the championship?

      1. WilliamB (@william-brierty)
        6th September 2013, 16:37

        @yobo01 It don’t think that is a remotely premature thing to say. Put it this way, we are on the verge of a substantial regulation change, and Ferrari are nearly 50 points behind in the drivers championship, with Mercedes and Hamilton 60 behind. What is the point of throwing the kitchen sink at the car in a desperate, yet inevitably remote chance of winning the championship if we may see some of the advantage Red Bull currently holds get curtailed by the 2014 regs anyway? Although Alonso and Hamilton may appear to be claiming to say they are still in with a chance, they, and more importantly their teams know that it is over, and have almost certainly already directed the majority of their developmental resource to the 2014 season. And that leaves us with the current status quo, with Red Bull way out front. In 2012 the close championship saw a continued development battle and the advantage swinging between McLaren and Red Bull in the second half of the season, but in 2013 that is not the case. If Vettel had an E21 or if Alonso had an RB9 then we’d have an interesting championship on our hands, but Vettel has both the points and the performance, and I don’t think it is remotely unreasonable to expect Vettel to in with a very real chance of winning most of the remaining races.

        1. @william-brierty This morning everyone was saying “wow, it looks close at the front”, after a couple of hours everyone predicts a walk in the park for Vettel. Maybe tomorrow a Mercedes will be on pole and there will be people who believe that Mercedes can fight for the victory.
          What I want to say is that saying these kind of things after friday is a bit premature.

          I agree with you that Vettel is very close to his fourth championship, and I know that Ferrari and Mercedes will not develop their car if they don’t see any chance of winning. Domenicali said that they are bringing upgrades until Singapore. If the championship situation doesn’t improve, they are going to switch to 2014. And I definitely think Red Bull will do the same, because 2014 is very important to them, too.

          But I don’t see Vettel winning easily the next 8 races, because Mercedes is still quite strong on high downforce tracks and Ferrari has improved a lot recently. They are all going to be without major upgrades, so I don’t see Red Bull winning comfortably the next 8 races.

          1. WilliamB (@william-brierty)
            6th September 2013, 18:35

            @yobo01 I am not talking about 0.6 second gap when I predict Vettel’s dominance, because it looked quite clear to me onboard that Vettel was running lower fuel than anyone else on his qualy run. But Vettel’s race pace is inescapable. OK, we don’t know the fuel loads, but we equally know that Red Bull tend not to run lowish fuel on race runs; what’s the point? To scare everyone? It really doesn’t matter what the grid looks like when you have race pace like that, and with Pirelli going super conservative on compounds following the British GP debacle, it’s not like tyre deg is going to kick in to aid Lotus and Ferrari.

            With regards to the season as a whole, you quite rightly say that the Singapore GP is the perquisite developmental cut-off point. Assuming the championship situation looks equally dire after Singapore, all teams, including Red Bull will put all of their efforts into 2014 as you so quite rightly say. And without pendulum shifts of a developmental battle we will be left with the current status quo, i.e. the RB9 being uttered dominant, and going into track that historically suit the Red Bull. Red Bull may not win every remaining race, but they will almost certainly arrive at each with comfortably the fastest car. Remember the later stages of 2011? Well prepare to experience some deja vu.

    3. Will Dan turn out to be a Lewis or a Perez ? an interesting thing to watch !!!!

      1. WilliamB (@william-brierty)
        6th September 2013, 16:45

        @tmax Indeed, in fact despite the prospect of the RB10 being potentially less competitive than its predecessors, Ricciardo is one of the things I’m most looking forward to about the F1 2014 season.

      2. @tmax . I doubt he would even be a Perez. He looks more like a post 2009 Massa to me

        1. WilliamB (@william-brierty)
          6th September 2013, 19:56

          @todfod Harsh. No, Ricciardo will be more like a 2010 spec Hulkenberg. A bit inconsistent and erratic to start with, but getting ever stronger, faster and measured as the season progresses, perhaps even culminating in a similar glory Hulkenberg showered himself in when he got pole in Brazil; perhaps even manifesting itself in a win for Ricciardo.

    4. The elements that can stop the Darth Vader esque Sebastian Vettel :)

      Formula 1 2014 – A New Hope!

      1. WilliamB (@william-brierty)
        6th September 2013, 18:40

        @younger-hamii Only the elements can stop Sebastian Vettel…..errrr, actually he was on pole in the wet in Australia, Canada and Malaysia and is arguably the finest wet weather driver out there, so no, not even the elements can stop Voldemor…er, Sebastian Vettel. James Allison make the 2014 Ferrari fast! I implore you!!!! Pleeeeease!!!! You are my Professor Dumbledore!

        1. @william-brierty Arguably the finest driver in the wet, hence why last qualifying session to occur in mixed/wet conditions was the last race and I clearly remember Hamilton being on pole and as for Canada, I also remember Lewis being on course to pip Vettel’s time before running wide at the final chicane.

          The elements (weather, strategy etc) can do any driver a major favour my friend – and don’t panic there’s Paddy Lowe at Mercedes, Rory Byrne and James Allison at Ferrari and all the intellectual engineers and designers at McLaren who can stop Adrian Newey :)

    5. You know @william-brierty, I’ve been reading a lot of comments lately (yours included) about either the disappointment that Raikkonen is not going to drive for Red Bull next year or the desire/believe that with Raikkonen next to Vettel, Vettel would have had a much harder time. Some even go as far to say Vettel wouldn’t have been champion once if he was partnered with Raikkonen instead of Webber.

      But, I can’t help wonder if any of that is actually true. Don’t get me wrong, I like Raikkonen and I think he’s a great driver. But how exactly would he put more pressure on Vettel than Webber did? Sure, he would get off the line by using the accelerator instead of the brake pedal but as opposed to Webber Raikkonen is not a qualifying specialist. Raikkonen admits this frequently.
      So, naturally, Raikkonen would already be one or a few places down from where Webber would be before the race even starts (of course this factors in a Red Bull that isn’t 1.7 seconds clear of the field).
      This means the only way for Raikkonen to really put pressure on Vettel is to be faster than Vettel in race pace. And not just faster but a great deal faster for he would have to overtake cars in between Vettel and himself first before closing in on Vettel. Let alone overtake him. All the while Vettel can control his pace, prolong tyre life and save fuel.

      I’m sorry but I find it highly unlikely that Raikkonen would put pressure on Vettel unless Raikkonen starts to improve his qualifying game.


      These fine gentleman have been in F1 for some time now. That didn’t stop Newey from winning 9 constructors championships before.

  8. Somehow,Vettel’s pace looks ominous.The question is that Mercs had answer to red bull in Q3 but this week it looks tough.
    Just waiting for 2014,this red bull dominance is making it boring,for me atleast.

  9. Murathime Xola
    6th September 2013, 15:06


  10. Another Vettel resurgent..oh no, he is already WAY ahead.

  11. Clutching at straws here, but hoping Ferrari,merc are running highier downforce levels in the anticipation of rain on sunday

  12. The Mercs (well… Hamilton) will be there in qualifying and will put pressure on Vettel. Sadly, once the lights go out on Sunday, I can only see Vettel driving off into the distance in another DRS-fueled borefest.

    Is it just me or has the effect of DRS massively improved races at the dull tracks where passing is difficult but ruined the classic tracks?

    1. Don’t think DRS will have a huge effect here as the wings are very small anyway. Not that I like DRS.

    2. @petebaldwin

      Is it just me or has the effect of DRS massively improved races at the dull tracks where passing is difficult but ruined the classic tracks?

      Not just you. I am thinking exactly the same.
      DRS is only balanced on the rubbish tracks, but because FIA doesn’t care at all about balancing DRS on the better overtaking circuits, well then we end up with races like Spa, usual classics, ruined by the DRS. While Abu Dhabi and Valencia has some great “races” just because DRS isn’t overpowered massively. At SPA DRS is more like a “godmode” from a video game, then an overtaking assist.
      All this DRS nonsense is just incredibly frustrating.

  13. I remember on F1FLive at Spa there was a chance of rain at the end of the race, and I was praying for it – except there were some comments saying “you shouldn’t have to rely on rain” and “I hte people who pray for rain in a race” and all that. I have to say I don’t care what these people say, I am an F1 Fanatic and I want some rain in Monza and I’m not ashamed to admit it !!! Come on clouds, you can do it!

    1. Those praying for rain probably forgot who won the last wet Italian Grand Prix.

  14. Räikkönen won the Australian Grand Prix with a 12 second lead.
    Vettel won the Malaysian Grand Prix with a 12 second lead (over Mercedes).
    Alonso won the Chinese Grand Prix with a 10 second lead.
    Vettel won the Bahrain Grand Prix with a 9 second lead.
    Alonso won the Spanish Grand Prix with a 9 second lead.
    Rosberg won the Monaco Grand Prix with a 4 second lead.
    Vettel won the Canadian Grand Prix with a 14 second lead.
    Rosberg won the British Grand Prix with a 1 second lead.
    Vettel won the German Grand Prix with a 1 second lead.
    Hamilton won the Hungarian Grand Prix with a 10 second lead.
    Vettel won the Belgian Grand Prix with a 17 second lead.

    So tell me, how exactly is “Vettel is winning” any more “OMG! End of the world! Doom!” than any of the other drivers winning by a country mile?

    1. Alex (@korbendallas)
      7th September 2013, 3:09

      ^this. These wins aren’t being handed to him by any means. Based on their gap to the second placed car, their average winning margins are:

      Raikkonen: 12.45 seconds (1 win)
      Hamilton: 10.94 seconds (1 win)
      Alonso: 9.75 seconds (2 wins)
      Vettel: 9.13 seconds (5 wins)
      Rosberg: 2.33 seconds (2 wins)

  15. It seems like Vettel turns the screws this time of year. Takes it to an even higher level. This guy might be the coolest head under pressure we’ve ever seen in F1.

  16. Another Merc speed BLUFF. Do u really think Hamilton will only improve 2 tenths. ITS ANOTHER HAM POLE.

  17. Grand Prix racing used to be exciting because it was unpredictable. Now that the engines are not developed and the mechanicals are pretty much bullet proof, there is no excitement. I don’t care if Vettel wins alot. I just can’t wait for the new regs to mix things up. It will increase the chances of blown engines, running out of gas, etc. 2014 should make F1 fun to watch again. Spa is one of the best tracks in the world, and I was dozing off watching the race because there was hardly anything exciting happening. Bring on 2014!

    1. I hear you about wanting more unpredictability, but I can’t say that I get my excitement from seeing cars blow engines and/or run out of gas. I’d rather they be far less aero dependant and far more reliant on mechanical grip so we can get back to driver vs. driver, seat of the pants racing. Bad tires and DRS certainly aren’t doing it for me. And certainly haven’t prevented SV from a likely cakewalk this season.

      1. “Mechanical grip” is not going to keep a car on the track at speeds in the 200MPH range. If people really want to see aerodynamics reduced in importance, then limiting the engines to 200HP would be a good first step. Of course that would not be F1 anymore.

        1. @jonsan
          Says who? We will never know, until they actually try.

        2. @jonsan Rather a silly comment on your part since I didn’t suggest eliminating aero completely…just it’s overdominance and it’s overusage to the point where they need gadgets to try to compensate. Also, Nascar has no trouble keeping cars on track at 200mph. Mechanical grip should be more dominant is all I am saying. And why default to a reduction down to 200hp? You may as well have not commented at all.

          1. The cars in NASCAR develop huge amounts of downforce and employ extremely sophisticated aerodynamics – much more sophisticated in many respects than that found in F1. They actually have genuine aircraft-style flaps (a “movable aerodynamic device” in F1 speak) on the roofs of the cars. From an aerodynamic standpoint the entire concept of open-wheel racing is a bit silly and old-fashioned. NASCAR racing looks different from F1 racing because of the tracks it races on, not because it uses simple and unsophisticated aerodynamics.

    2. Probably won’t be too many blown engines, the blocks will be based on this years, but with two less cylinders and a lower rev limit. Cooling might be an issue with the bigger ERS and intercoolers, so the possibility of a few popped turbos is there, though I imagine a great deal of CFD has been done to ensure they won’t.

      @jonsan “much more sophisticated in many respects than that found in F1″ I’d be really, really interested if you’d elaborate a little more on this.

  18. Shreyas Mohanty (@)
    6th September 2013, 17:21

    You guys know what’s best for F1? All cars of the same spec.

    1. Lot’s of “F1 fans” are not actually fans of F1.

    2. No. Because if that happen we will see a car-train, cause no one have advantage. Modern F1 cars don’t give much playroom.

    3. @shreyasf1fan
      Go watch IndyCar then. F1 has always had the element of car development. It’s what the sport is all about, and always has been. If you don’t like that part of the sport, then it probably isn’t for you.
      It would be like removing the ball from a game of football.

      1. @mads IndyCar doesn’t have cars of exactly the same specification: they have different engine manufacturers.

    4. It would be good to see Ham beating Alo again guys, by the way I like Alo I just always see this dude critisise Ham and Alo can do no wrong. Im a fan of the 3 best drivers Ham, Alo, Vet, in no particular order although I think I prefer Ham and Vet just a little but Alo is a warrior not quick in quali but relentless on race days.

  19. If Hamilton or Alonso is consistently winning, I don’t think I will see whiners.

    1. Whiners come out when there is a huge car advantage spoling racing.

      No one would be whining if there was a car that could match the RB over the past 4 seasons. Most fans do not like seeing a driver win at every venue purely because of superior machinery.

      I think whining is completely justified

      1. @todfod I think you are right and I think F1 gets that too or else they wouldn’t occasionally try to switch things up to upset the ‘natural’ order of things as each chapter occurs.

        I don’t generally whine, and I certainly wouldn’t mind as much if the fake tires and DRS was actually doing what they are supposed to do, but they haven’t, so to me it is just F1 struggling to find a formula, and I think until they get off their downforce addiction even next year’s drastic spec changes may only make for a temporary and very expensive shuffling of the order.

      2. People who think that Vettel wins races “purely because of superior machinery” are whiners. People who think that there has been no car able to match RB over the last four seasons, on the other hand, are deluded.

        1. (@todfod)

          The only car to match (actually beat) the RB so far has been the early 2012 Mclaren, and that broke down most of the time.

        2. WilliamB (@william-brierty)
          6th September 2013, 20:14

          @jonsan Well that’s an amusing comment. Do you watch much grand prix racing? Well, if you ever get the chance you’ll notice that whilst both Ferrari drivers have their arms crossed as their car understeers like a cross channel ferry and Hamilton is locking up and going straight on, that Vettel is floating around the race-track as if on a cloud. When you’re sat by the race-track and you can easily see a car carries more apex speed then we are talking about a monster of a car. But I, and of course the rest of the F1 community is wrong about that clearly, and are “deluded”. You only have to look at the remarkable drivers that Vettel has beaten in the garage opposite to see what a legend he is. Where would F1 be without talent like that of Mark Webber, Sebastien Bourdais and Vitantonio Liuzzi, although, admittedly, Vettel didn’t manage to beat Liuzzi. Also do you not find it strange that despite having a car that you seemingly believe is nothing special, he is easily beating everyone, despite being beaten consistently by guys like Hamilton, Rosberg, Hulkenberg and Di Resta even in the junior series? And if you think that reminding people of things like Vettel’s unspectacular junior record, the low calibre of his teammates in F1 or of things like the fact that he has never won a race after finishing the first lap in a lower position than P2 is whining, then you sir are deluded.

          1. Tell me something about “impressive” junior career of Alonso – even Webber beat him then. The only legendary driver Alonso was paired with was Lewis an he lost him. He lost to “legendary” Trulli as well. As for Vettel, he did beat Liuzzi and he never lost to Rosberg and Hulkenberg in junior series.

          2. @william-brierty

            Vettel didn’t manage to beat Liuzzi

            Liuzzi in 2007, 3 points.
            Vettel in 2007, 6 points.

            Last time I checked 6 is a higher number than 3. And let’s not forget Vettel running 3rd in Fuji before Hamilton decided to brake test the field. Liuzzi was no where near Vettel that race.

            he is easily beating everyone, despite being beaten consistently by guys like Hamilton, Rosberg, Hulkenberg and Di Resta even in the junior series?

            Just like F1 the junior series aren’t all the same cars driving around. When Hamilton was beating everyone in F3 he was driving for what was at the time the best team. When Di Resta beat Vettel by a measly 17 points, they were driving for the best team. The year before Di Resta was in a better car than Vettel and got trashed by both his own teammate and Vettel.
            So, using feeder series as proof of driver a being much faster than driver b is laughable at best.

            Or are you really going to imply Webber is a better driver than Alonso? Thought not.

          3. this di resta beat sv story…
            first of… vettel beat di resta in his rookie year
            next year vettel suffered from a hand injury all season long
            vettel is hamilton’s 2 year junior, of course he had to beat him

            btw, where are previous f3000/gp2 champs now?
            in my opinion, in these series raw speed is the decisive factor which is crucial in f1 too, but not enough

            kimi, alonso, vettel, what other proof do you need?

        3. People who think that there has been no car able to match RB over the last four seasons, on the other hand, are deluded.


          Maybe you’ve been watching some other sport. Vettel wouldn’t have won a single title if he was in either a Ferrari or a Mclaren over the past 4 seasons. That’s a fact

          1. @todfod

            That depends on who would have been driving the Red Bull instead of Vettel.

            If Webber had been top dog for Red Bull the last couple of years Red Bull might have won 2010. But 2011 and 2012? No.
            So I disagree with the notion that Vettel wouldn’t have won a single title in a Ferrari or a McLaren. In 2011 he would have beaten Button if he’d been in a McLaren and with Webber as Red Bull’s top dog that would have meant at least 1 championship for Vettel.

      3. Vettel had a car advantage in 2011, but he did set a bunch of new records with his machinery.

        He didn’t have a car advantage in 2010, 2012 the McLaren was quicker and the Ferrari was far more reliable. In 2013 the Red Bull has only been quickest at Bahrain, Montreal and Spa.

        Vettel’s only “dominating” in the championship standings and that’s purely due to having not made a mistake in qualifying or the races.

  20. I’d love to see Vettel deliberately qualify last and see where he ends up. He should do it when he locks up the championship with a race or three to go. LOLOL

    1. Abu Dhabi 2012?

      1. That wasn’t “deliberate” @mnmracer , but yeah, that was still quite something.

    2. We’ve seen his racecraft in Abu Dhabi ’12 and even more convinvingly in Brasil ’12. When the championship was on the line.

      Let’s recap at some of the other ‘better’ driver’s (as some here seem to think) championship deciding races.
      Alonso, Brasil ’12; Mopping the circuit, going off track and nearly losing it while Massa successfully fended off multiple attackers. in some instances Massa fended of multiple attackers at once. Alonso lucked into 2nd place. He wouldn’t have stood a chance without Massa and Hulkenberg and Hamilton colliding. Massa was Robin that day. Alonso was a very weak, probably sick, Batman.
      Alonso, Abu Dhabi ’10. Without DRS suddenly Alonso isn’t as good in racing through the field as Valencia ’12 or Spa ’13 would suggest. He spent his ‘victory’ lap waving solely at our friendly neighbourhood Russian.
      Hamilton, Brasil ’08. Classic Hamilton under pressure. Almost lost it completely when he got passed by this Vettel kid in a 2nd hand Red Bull. To think that this poor driver called Vettel was tailing him for most of the race really proves Hamilton was just terrible that day. Easily 2 seconds off his usual pace. Surely.
      Hamilton, Brasil ’07. Thought the best way to decide a championship is to decide it in the first lap. It turned out that wasn’t the best way to decide it, for him at least.

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