Red Bull’s 40th win puts Vettel level with Alonso

2013 Italian Grand Prix stats and facts

Sebastian Vettel, Red Bull, Monza, 2013Sebastian Vettel and Red Bull reached several milestones with a successful weekend at Monza.

Vettel notched up his 40th pole position and Red Bull’s 50th putting them one short of Renault’s total. On race day Vettel gave the team their 40th F1 victory, all of which have been scored in the 85 races since the 2009 Chinese Grand Prix.

For Vettel the win puts him level with Fernando Alonso as the most successful driver in the field in terms of race wins. Here’s how the rest of their careers statistics stack up:

Sebastian Vettel Fernando Alonso
Starts 113 208
Appearances 120 210
Wins (% of starts) 32 (28.32) 32 (15.38)
Pole positions (% of starts) 40 (35.40) 22 (10.58)
Fastest laps (% of starts) 19 (16.81) 20 (9.62)
Podiums (% of starts) 55 (48.67) 93 (44.71)
Seasons 6 12
Championships 3 2
Teams BMW, Toro Rosso, Red Bull Minardi, Renault, McLaren, Ferrari
Team mates Nick Heidfeld, Vitantonio Liuzzi, Sebastien Bourdais, Mark Webber Tarso Marques, Alex Yoong, Jarno Trulli, Jacques Villeneuve, Giancarlo Fisichella, Lewis Hamilton, Nelson Piquet Jnr, Romain Grosjean, Felipe Massa
Points (per start) 1,276 (11.29) 1,533 (7.37)
Adjusted points (per start)* 1,466 (12.97) 2,376 (11.42)

*All finishes adjusted to post-2010 points system

Vettel’s win also marked the 300th podium finish by a German driver. Only Britain has had more. Michael Schumacher accounts for more than half of Germany’s:

Ferrari may not have claimed victory in their home event but they did score points for the 60th consecutive race. That leaves them four races short of the record set by McLaren earlier this year.

Alonso was in the points for the tenth race in a row, although he’s bettered that on four previous occasions with a personal best of 23 consecutive points finishes.

Lewis Hamilton, Mercedes, Monza, 2013Speaking of streaks, Lewis Hamilton’s record run of Q3 appearances finally came to an end. The last time he failed to reach the top ten shoot-out was at the 2010 Malaysian Grand Prix, 67 races ago. No one has managed a longer streak since the three-part qualifying format was introduced in 2006.

Arriving at Monza the drivers’ championship was mathematically still within reach of all the drivers. Now there are only nine drivers who can still win it, the last of which is Jenson Button. However he would need to win all the remaining races with Vettel not scoring (and several other drivers scoring much more poorly than they have hitherto) to claim the title by a point.

In the constructors’ championship, only the top six teams are mathematically still in contention.

It’s been a luckless year for Jean-Eric Vergne who posted his fifth retirement due to a technical problem, three more than any other driver. Nico Rosberg been stopped three times by car failures, though in in Hungary he was still classified as he had completed more than 90% of the race distance.

Yesterday’s race ran flat-out from start to finish on a dry track yet was only the eighth-quickest race on the current configuration of Monza, which has held 14 Italian Grands Prix since 2000. Vettel averaged 234.268kph (145.57mph) on his way to victory. However it was faster than the previous two races at the track.

Review the year so far in statistics here:

Spotted any other interesting stats and facts from the Italian Grand Prix? Share them in the comments.

2013 Italian Grand Prix

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Images ?é?® Red Bull/Getty, Daimler/Hoch Zwei

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112 comments on Red Bull’s 40th win puts Vettel level with Alonso

  1. Can i get the stats between Race appearances and Race starts?

    • Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 9th September 2013, 11:25

      @neelv27 What do you mean?

    • J Dubya (@j-dubya) said on 9th September 2013, 18:16

      I like Vettel, but I do have to admit that I have grown tired of him winning. I have to say that I did lose a lot of respect for him when he drove into Webber and acted like Webber was the crazy one. That being said, what can be said about Vettel as a great driver — he has the measure of Mark Webber and Sebastian Bourdais. I love Webber, but let’s face it, he is not considered one of the greats. As fans, we just don’t have enough data points to make a judgement. Given that there is discrepancy between the performance of the cars, we cannot know. We may feel certain, or convinced, but the evidence is lacking. Perhaps the team principals and staff are in the best position to judge as they have massive amounts of data to work with — even then I suspect there would be some spirited debate. It would be interesting to put an anonymous question to the team principals and ask them who they would choose to drive their car if there were no contractual or money issues or barriers. I bet Vettel would be right up there. For me Alonzo is solid and damn good, but it would be between Hamilton and Vettel. While Hamilton’s pop star personal life is a tragic comedy, he is more fun to watch on the track. But if it were my dime, I suspect Vettel would be more consistent.

  2. Dane (@n0b0dy100) said on 9th September 2013, 11:32

    What was Seb doing for 7 races that he appeared in but didn’t start? We’re they practice sessions?

  3. Wessel (@wessel-v1) said on 9th September 2013, 11:40

    Sergio Perez finally got a 12th position!

  4. andae23 (@andae23) said on 9th September 2013, 11:41

    This is what I noticed:

    - For the third time in five races, the best Ferrari-powered driver on the grid was not a works team Ferrari driver: Daniel Ricciardo was the best at Silverstone and the Nurburgring, while Nico Hülkenberg qualified best at Monza.

    - For the first time since 1966, three Ferrari-powered drivers qualified in the top five of the Italian Grand Prix. In 1966, Mike Parkes, Ludovico Scarfiotti and Lorenzo Bandini (all works Ferrari drivers) qualified in the top five. (Scarfiotti would take his only victory in F1 that race, making him the last Italian driver to win the Italian GP)

    - Some lovely round numbers: Sebastian Vettel 40th pole position, the 50th for Red Bull, followed by Red Bull’s 40th win.

    - Fernando Alonso finished second for the 35th time, as much as Alain Prost. He is just eight away from Michael Schumacher’s record.

    - Mark Webber became the first Australian driver on the podium at Monza since Alan Jones at the 1981 Italian Grand Prix.

    - In Pirelli’s 250th Grand Prix with at least one driver on Pirelli tyres, Lewis Hamilton became the 100th driver to set fastest lap on Pirelli tyres.

    - After twelve eleventh places, Sergio Perez finished twelfth for the first time in his F1 career.

    - Paul Di Resta retired on the first lap for the first time in his F1 career. For Force India, this is their third double retirement of the year!

    - Still no points for the rookies…

    - Statistically speaking, if Fernando Alonso wins all races and Sebastian Vettel finishes second from now on, Vettel will still win the championship.
    _

    A quick note on the 300 German podiums: a podium finish is something different form a podium appearance. For instance, Stefan Bellof appeared on the podium in Monaco 1984, but because Tyrrell were later disqualified in the season it doesn’t count as a podium finish.

  5. svarun (@svarun) said on 9th September 2013, 12:15

    Well it is looks good on paper that Vettel has equaled Alonso in numbers.What the article doesn’t mentions is the class of the drivers.(not that vettel is bad,but Alonso is better)
    I wish someone calculates the overtakes of their drivers and that will show a different tale (the execution of overtakes is even better in Alonso’s favour).Alonso has surely the better race craft in my opinion,as i feel that moving from 10th or 12th and move up 2nd is bigger feat.
    As for qualifying, i am sure everyone will agree that Hamilton is the best.

    • Oletros (@oletros) said on 9th September 2013, 12:33

      > Alonso has surely the better race craft in my opinion,as i feel that moving from 10th or 12th and move up 2nd is bigger feat.

      Abu Dhabi 2012 says hi

    • John D Cooper said on 9th September 2013, 12:33

      2005 Season – Renault and McLaren shared all wins except USA(Schumi). Of all Renault victories only 1 went to Fisi
      2006 Season – Renault and Ferrari shared all wins except Hungary(Button). Of all Renault victories only 1 went to Fisi
      Unlike now, except for the frontrunners no other team wins unless something extraordinary happens.
      Please explain the java class you are trying to pass. You must be having a ball passing opinions as facts.

    • crr917 (@crr917) said on 9th September 2013, 12:34

      @svarun No, no and… no. But it’s almost a decent joke. Try harder next time.

    • People will rightly argue that since Seb very often qualifies on the sharp-end of the grid, hence he doesn’t need to do any amount of overtaking.

      • David Margono (@woshidavid95) said on 9th September 2013, 12:52

        @svarun
        > Alonso has surely the better race craft in my opinion,as i feel that moving from 10th or 12th and move up 2nd is bigger feat.

        Abu Dhabi 2012, Interlagos 2012. Besides, if Alonso has to start from 10th or 12th it shows he is not an exceptional qualifier. Even after taking into account that Ferrari are not the fastest over a single lap, the fact that Vettel is dominating Webber 12-0 whereas it’s ‘only’ 8-4 for Alonso – Massa despite Massa obviously being the inferior driver to Webber AND Alonso receiving blatant favouritism says something.

        • F1Rollout (@f1rollout) said on 9th September 2013, 13:26

          “the fact that Vettel is dominating Webber 12-0 whereas it’s ‘only’ 8-4 for Alonso – Massa despite Massa obviously being the inferior driver to Webber AND Alonso receiving blatant favouritism says something.”

          For better statistical analysis, you should compare between the two over the last four seasons. I am sure numbers are in Alonso’s favor but can anybody do the math?

          • David Margono (@woshidavid95) said on 9th September 2013, 14:34

            @f1rollout
            Yes, you could argue that. But Massa for most of 2012 was absolutely woeful, not much better than Karthikeyan so it’s not even worth comparing, and he was also sub-par in 2010 and 2011, whereas Webber was a genuine WDC contender in 2010 and was at least a useful supporting driver in 2011 and 2012. Besides, it’s more accurate to take a look at the present to see how they’re performing; nobody in their right mind would say that Massa is better than Raikkonen now because of the 2008 season, would they? Long story short, Vettel doesn’t have to overtake that often because he’s an exceptional qualifier but he has proven that he can if the need arises. Alonso on the other hand is forced to overtake others because his qualifying pace isn’t as good.

          • @David Margono,
            Alonso is a great qualifier, just see his result versus his teammate, he doesn’t get pole because his car does not allow it. I think him and Vettel are the best drivers, too many variables to make a decision on who is better.

    • Vettel is one of the greatest qualifiers of all time. When you start at the front of the grid with a strong car you don’t need to pass many people.

      Alonso is an average/below average qualifer by the standards of the best in the world (Vettel, Hamilton), so he often starts on the third row when he should be front row or second row. Therefore, Alonso often gets the opportunity to pass weaker cars with his superior machinery due to the fact he under performs in qualifying.

    • JCost (@jcost) said on 9th September 2013, 14:29

      Vettel is a hell of driver, it helps that his car usually outperforms the likes of Ferrari and McLaren (and Mercedes) but his skills are there.

      Maybe in 2014 Red Bull will not enjoy such dominance or even be out of the picture, we never know. Milton Keynes boy built the best package in 2009 and materialized it since 2010, maybe someone else will hit the pot in 2014. Personally, I’d love to see Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton in fairly paired cars next year.

    • As for qualifying, i am sure everyone will agree that Hamilton is the best.

      I am much more sure that they won’t.

    • TMF (@tmf42) said on 9th September 2013, 15:57

      ALO has also 6 more years of experience and if you look at HAM and VET and how they improved over the past years then I would argue they’ll get even better than ALO is right now. In qualifying they are already.

    • Maarten (@) said on 9th September 2013, 16:52

      @svarun

      as i feel that moving from 10th or 12th and move up 2nd is bigger feat

      I always have a bit mixed feelings with these kinds of statements. My opinion is, that if you let a Formula 1 car do enough laps with a decent driver (e.g. a race distance of some 300Km), no matter where that car will start, it’ll end up roughly where it belongs. Fact is that if someone starts from tenth and moves up to second, it’ll look far more impressive than someone who starts from second and ends up first. But what it really tells you is that one has had a much better qualifying session (whether by skill or circumstances). A Ferrari just belongs on or at least near the podium, their race pace is great. However, what they do lack is qualifying pace. And nowadays with whacky tires, qualifying position is no longer king, so it’s far easier to make up places if your car is quick enough in the race. A prime example is, as others mentioned, Abu Dhabi 2012, where Vettel went from last to third.

  6. Mike Dee (@mike-dee) said on 9th September 2013, 13:12

    @keithcollantine

    Now there are only nine drivers who can still win it, the last of which is Jenson Button. However he would need to win all the remaining races with Vettel not scoring (and several other drivers scoring much more poorly than they have hitherto) to claim the title by a point.

    This is not 100% correct. If Button wins all remaining seven races, and Vettel scores one point, they would have the same amount of points but Button would still be WDC with 7 wins as opposed to 6 wins for Vettel.

    The odds of this happening though appear relatively slim.

  7. OmarR-Pepper (@omarr-pepper) said on 9th September 2013, 14:07

    Cold stats prove it, yet some people still claim Hamilton and Alonso are better than Vettel. *sigh*

    • JCost (@jcost) said on 9th September 2013, 14:30

      How many people don’t think Schumacher is the best F1 driver ever @omarr-pepper? Cold stats prove it.

      • OmarR-Pepper (@omarr-pepper) said on 9th September 2013, 15:26

        @jcost If i compared Vettel and Schum NOW, you could say I’m not being fair. Th3 same if i compare Schumacher with Fangio. The reason? They raced in so different F1 times that you can’t really compare apples and oranges. That’s why many think Senna is the all-time greatest, because in the short time he had to shine, he broke many records, and we will always have the unaswered “if” about him, probably he would have achieved even more hadn’t he had died.
        But returning to the topic about Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel, the 3 race against each other, in the same time, the same rules. And even though Vettel has just a little more than half the races Alonso has, he has better average in all the fields. Let’s be honest, if you want, calculate Alonso’s stats without his second Renault stint (2008 and 2009) and they could be closer. But that’s why I trust in stats (and in what my eyes see and many people’s don’t) and I can say Vettel is better than Alonso and Hamilton. And for the ones who say it’s all down to Newey, let’s see how many current drivers make their own car.

        • @Omar-Pepper

          There are many people ‘FYI’ including myself who dont think vettel’s achievements are all due to Newey ….As I have said many times before Vettel thoroughly deserves what he has achieved… But the stats don’t tell that Vettel has had championship winning cars from the second half of 2009 and he started his first full season just an year before(Most of his career so far has been in cars that were capable of winning races and championships )… Alonso had spent plenty of time in mediocre cars (2001,2003,2004 ,2008 ,2009 and 2011 )…
          Similarly with Hamilton his first full season he was up against Alonso and I think it is fair to say either of them would’ve won the title and a few more races that year with a lesser teammate… 2012 was another year were Hamilton was outstanding but the team let him down many a times… and if you go by stats Hamilton should be a worse driver than Button because Button out scored Hamilton in their time together and that in itself proves stats cant tell the full story..
          PS :- I agree with you on Senna being the greatest driver of all time though :)

          • Karthikeyan (@ridiculous) said on 9th September 2013, 17:16

            2003 – 1 win and 3 podiums
            2004 – 4 podiums
            2011 – 1 win and 9 podiums
            So we can safely assume that Vettel has beaten Alonso comprehensively since 2009?
            PS: Whose doing was 2008 and 2009?

          • OmarR-Pepper (@omarr-pepper) said on 9th September 2013, 17:23

            @puneethvb yep, I know Alonso hasn’t had the best car all the time (that’s what I mentioned “take out his 2nd Renault stint”) but let’s also see the things from the other point of view: Alonso was hired by Ferrari with a strict one-two order, and that means his team has put all the resources on him, while Red Bull, in 2009, had both Webber and Vettel going for the WDC (like McLaren 2007) and remember Mark was 2nd on the championship at the start of Abu Dhabi 2010 .
            Alonso started in 2001 in a Minardi, but Toro Rosso is the same Faenza team (with more bags of money, I know) and Vettel could get a win in that car.
            But what is undeniable is that Vettel is in a time where rivals are strong. We have all these world champions, and Vettel makes it look as if it’s easy to beat them for 4 years in a row! What else it’s necessary to prove it? Another team or teammate for Vettel? Button and Rosberg are the same level of Webber (Massa probably is, but his contract says” don’t shine, don’t dare to shine”) and Vettel has dominated him as if the rookie was Mark and Seb the master.
            PS: It’s “OmarR-pepper”, you missed the second “R” :P

          • @OmarR -Pepper

            Hope this time I got Your user name correct this time :)

            As I said many a times there is no doubt that Vettel is a class act and one of the best in the current crop.. But to tell he is better than Alonso or Hamilton just based on the stats is not as straight forward as you make it sound… For example if we think Nico Hulkenberg is the best driver in F1 his stats will be far from impressive if he keeps driving for Sauber or Williams(actually I feel bad to name them as one of the lower midfield teams , but sadly that’s were they belong at the moment)… Maybe Vettel is better than Alonso or Hamilton but you cant say that with 100% surety if they don’t drive the same car…

          • @omarr-pepper

            Sorry, I got your user name wrong again.. I must be really tired I can’t even copy and paste properly …

          • That’s a completely circular argument. if Vettel wins in a car you just say “That shows his car was a championship winning car”. You could say that about every single driver in the history of F1. How many titles would Senna have won without a championship winning car? Not a one, obviously. How many titles would Fangio have collected without a championship winning car? Clark? Prost? Schumacher?
            People say this stuff with the intent of belittling Vettel. They don’t seem to realise that they are actually belittling all of F1 and all WDC winners.

            “What’s a WDC winner but somebody who had the good luck to find himself in a championship winning car?”

          • Palle (@palle) said on 9th September 2013, 23:56

            @puneethvb Senna is a bit overrated, look at the competition in his time and the delta times, i.e. the time difference over the field, when he was driving and compare with more modern F1. I like Senna, but he shouldn’t be overrated because tragedy and bad engineering robbed him from showing us more.

        • JCost (@jcost) said on 9th September 2013, 19:22

          @omarr-pepper so, cold stats don’t mean that much right?

      • Actually stats don’t tell the whole stroy do they? Senna is only a 3 time champion but is regarded by many as the greatest … Compared to Alonso and Hamilton Vettel had better cars over the years and hence undoubtedly has better statistics.. Now I am not one of those who says Vettel wins only because of the car he has, I think what he has acheived is truly remarkable and he will probably get even better considering he still relatively young …But I firmly beleive Alonso and hamilton would’ve done similar things if they were to have the same car…

        • Robbie (@robbie) said on 9th September 2013, 17:27

          I think something that cannot be denied is the fact that for the first half of FA’s F1 career he had as one of his competitors MS/Ferrari and that whole trumped up juggernaut. SV never had MS/Ferrari to deal with. And since MS retired from Ferrari, only SV has had a close and consistant relationship and time to gel with a top team (the WCC winning one) for several consecutive seasons.

        • I firmly beleive Alonso and hamilton would’ve done similar things if they were to have the same car…

          That’s not a belief which is based on anything factual though. There is not an iota of evidence that Vettel’s cars have been superior to those of Hamilton or Alonso. It’s just as possible that Vettel has been winning in an inferior car for the last few years.

          • Tifoso1989 (@tifoso1989) said on 9th September 2013, 18:27

            @jonsan

            It’s just as possible that Vettel has been winning in an inferior car for the last few years.

            A pig just flew outside my window !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          • @jonsan

            I suggest you read my comments carefully again.. at no point I tried to belittle Vettel’s achievements …

            Your belief of Vettel being superior than Hamilton and Alonso is also not based on any facts , since F1 teams do not run the same spec cars …and hence there is no ‘iota’ of evidence that Vettel is better than Hamilton or Alonso…

            All three are among the best and we actually have no way of knowing who is better than the others unless they all race in the same team..

          • Robbie (@robbie) said on 9th September 2013, 19:00

            It’s just as possible that Vettel has been winning in an inferior car for the last few years.

            I think that is quite a stretch given that RBR has had the WCC winning car for more than the last few years.

            There is not an iota of evidence that Vettel’s cars have been superior to those of Hamilton or Alonso

            Not one iota? Not even the WCC points standings? Wow. Am I ever in a different world than you.

          • xjr15jaaag (@xjr15jaaag) said on 9th September 2013, 21:47

            @robbie
            technically, the Marussia could be the best car on the grid.
            You cannot actually prove which car is the best as different people are driving them, and they all have differing levels of talent and commitment to their job.
            Maybe webber and vettel are outperforming the car at their disposal, and maybe Alonso and Massa are severely underperforming and the Ferrari is actually the best car on the grid.
            You don’t know for certain.

          • It’s just as possible that Vettel has been winning in an inferior car for the last few years.

            Oh my god is this comment for real @jonsan? You cannot be suggesting that the car that qualified the rest of the field by 0.8 seconds at the 2010 Hungarain GP is an inferior car?
            This is not mentioning the fact that in 2010 and 2011 Red Bull won the constructors championship with ease.

    • Dave (@raceprouk) said on 9th September 2013, 15:02

      With the right amount of spin, stats can be ‘proof’ of anything you wish to prove.

      • OmarR-Pepper (@omarr-pepper) said on 9th September 2013, 19:44

        @raceprouk
        What spin? They have reached the same number of wins, Vettel in less time. If he is not better, You can deffinitely say he is more efficient. Even i saw once a comparison between Kimi and Alonso when they had the same number of races (for Ferrari only ok?) and again, Kimi was just “more efficient” than Alonso, oh, and with one WDC too!

        • Dave (@raceprouk) said on 9th September 2013, 19:56

          @omarr-pepper – Kimi’s Ferrari was a top package all through ’07, and it’s no secret RBR has been the class of the field for the last four years. Your spin was to ignore the performances of the cars.

          Don’t get me wrong, Vettel’s one of the best three on the current grid. But don’t just quote stats as the ultimate arbiter of form – stats only tell half the story ;-)

      • celeste (@celeste) said on 9th September 2013, 20:41

        Well as someone who works with stats I will quote this:

        “There are no facts, only interpretations” – Nietzshe

      • @xjr15jaaag I think it is quite safe to say that over the course of two thirds of a season, as the teams and drivers have had their cars at various tracks in various conditions, the math starts to settle out the better cars from the lesser ones. I think all the drivers in F1 are quite capable, so the odds are that if a Marussia, for example, is actually the best car out there as you suggest is possible, then at least one of their drivers is at least on a few occasions going to turn some heads with it and make some of the experts within F1 stand up and take notice. But has that actually happened? I think you and jonsan are reaching quite far here for an argument that doesn’t exist. I think the WCC points system does a sufficient job of sussing out the better cars, and if not, then there sure must be some awful drivers in F1 if that can’t take the best car (a Marussia as you suggest) and do anything with it. F1 must have to review their level of drivers if your hypothesis is correct.

        • xjr15jaaag (@xjr15jaaag) said on 10th September 2013, 16:46

          @robbie
          The argument does exist, and what I stated is possible, although extremely unlikely.
          However, the fact that the Red Bulls could be on a par with the Ferraris is a real possibility, as no-one definitely knows which car is fastest as different people are driving them. Therefore, that theory shouldn’t be swept so quickly under the carpet.

    • Broom (@brum55) said on 9th September 2013, 22:14

      Cold hard stats show Schumacher is more than twice the driver of Senna and Clark. Thankfully people know that stats do not tell the whole story.

    • Jay Menon (@jaymenon10) said on 10th September 2013, 0:21

      “‘Lots of drivers can drive fast, but very few drivers can race” – Richard “The King” Petty

  8. This is the first time in their respective careers that Vettel has had more podium finishes than Hamilton – 55 vs 54. (Hamilton had 20 before Vettel got his first)

  9. Shreyas Mohanty (@) said on 9th September 2013, 16:20

    Statistically he is level, yes. Vettel is really good, but Alonso is better. Afterall, there are : Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics.

    • There are facts, and there are emotions. Good sports fans combine passion with a commitment to the facts, which is why sports fans as a rule are prone to quoting statistics. I’m not sure what this says about the average F1 fan, but it’s probably not good.

    • Oletros (@oletros) said on 9th September 2013, 18:38

      but Alonso is better

      In your opinion

    • But we could argue that Alonso was fortunate to win his two championships.

      Alonso only won in 2005 because Kimi had terrible reliability and bad luck. Not to mention Ferrari had been put at a severe disadvantage by the new regs. Schumacher still got a valiant third in the championship with a car that couldn’t compete at all for race wins.

      2006 Alonso wins the championships due to the illegal mass damper used for the first half of the season.

      Oh, and let’s not forget that he couldn’t beat his teammate Trulli in 2004 and couldn’t beat his rookie teammate Hamilton in 2007.

  10. One gets a sense, after this race, that the RBR is now free to place their advance order for commemorative hats and t-shirts for the 2013 season. But one also gets the sense now that no other driver may be able to stake a claim as the greatest driver of this generation—even if the 2014 car is a flop, or aliens to arrive to punish Newey for stealing their technology. He is so young that he can survive a few lean years or settle into a more regular statistical pace from here out to make Alonso, Hamilton, Raikkonen et al disappear into the mirrors.

    The only weak area of his legacy will be that Webber did not bring a title to RBR and he won’t make one after he leaves. Like Schumacher, people will be able to say that he did not have to battle Prost in the same car. He has not beat a champion in his team. However, he has beaten Hamilton, Button, and Alonso, in closely contested championships when his rivals had very quick cars in multiple consecutive seasons. Arguably, this is a better accolade than beating only Prost when everyone else had a car that was 1.5s off the pace.

    • Robbie (@robbie) said on 9th September 2013, 17:35

      What I appreciate of SV vs. the likes of MS is that SV isn’t a bully on the track…perhaps even the opposite as I know some people still suspect SV is not a good passer and that he wouldn’t nearly do so well if he didn’t run away from pole for most of his wins. But so did MS in a format that so much more favoured those types of wins. But for me, at least vs. MS SV keeps it clean, and as far as I know he doesn’t have a designer car and tires, and certainly doesn’t have a teammate who is under contract to not compete against him.

      Having the best car is virtually always a necessary ingredient to winning WDCs, but I can so much more appreciate HOW SV wins with the best car vs. how MS did.

    • @dmw: You are so very right about Vettel’s competition being much tougher and closer than to only have Prost to beat.
      And this combined with the fact that we have a lot of battles during the races makes me wonder if those who claim to be tired of F1 are watching the same races as I do? We have more than 2 or 3 drivers in F1, please watch some more of them than only Vettel and Alonso.

  11. 1st car # 1
    2nd car # 3
    3rd car # 2
    4th car # 4

    4th time this happens,
    the others were
    Hungary 2000,
    Canada 2002 and Korea 2011.

  12. KaIIe (@kaiie) said on 9th September 2013, 21:02

    Not really related to the action on the track, but this was the last race for Erkki Mustakari, a Finnish journalist/commentator who has 412 Grands Prix to his name, starting with the 1982 Italian GP. He holds the record for most number of consecutive GP “appearances”; from the 1989 Portuguese GP to 2012 Chinese GP he was always at the paddock (this run was ruined by MTV3 not sending their team to the Bahrain GP).

  13. Corrado (@corrado-dub) said on 9th September 2013, 21:27

    I don’t get it why you say Alonso is a medium (to weak) driver in Quali ! Look at the Renault years, lots of front row starts ! Problem is the car: Ferrari was a weak car in Quali in all recent years. Massa didn’t do better in the same car. Plus, in recent years, RBR was the strongest car overall, while other teams had ups and downs in performace. Look at Lotus, some races ago they were fighting for podium positions with both cars, now they were fighting to gain 1 point ! Does this mean Kimi is a bad driver now ?? No.

  14. F1Rollout (@f1rollout) said on 9th September 2013, 22:13

    Vettel is not on the same league of Alonso, Hamilton, Raikkonen…even if he wins 100 Grand prixs..Just like Schumacher is no match of the likes of Senna and Clarke. Massa is a very good driver..we will get to know that When Kimi will be paired with Alonso..

    • Oletros (@oletros) said on 9th September 2013, 22:42

      Joke, isn’t?

    • David-A (@david-a) said on 10th September 2013, 0:31

      @f1rollout – So Massa is a very good driver, but Webber is so bad that beating him easily doesn’t even let Vettel be in the same league as Alo, Ham or Rai? Schumacher didn’t even compete against Senna for more than a couple of years, and obviously wasn’t able to be compared to Clark. Different scenario to Vettel now, winning on such a competitive grid, with the regulations stricter than ever. Yours is quite a comical comment.

      • F1Rollout (@f1rollout) said on 12th September 2013, 14:50

        Did i say Massa is better than Webber? Webber has been quite close to Vettel than Massa has been to Alonso in last 4 years. Webber has RedBull to win 4 constructor titles(assuming RB will win this year too).

        Vettel hasn’t proved anything except driving fast in a very fast car. He hasn’t made a superb comeback after a sabbatical like Raikkonen. He hasn’t won in a bad car like Alonso has in Ferrari and Renault. He hasn’t faced a world champion teammate like Button, Hamilton. And more important he has never won a race from midfield or back of the grid.

        I am not saying he is not good enough or not capable of doing it. I just cant rate him equal to those who have done this already until he does that too.

  15. paulgilb (@paulgilb) said on 9th September 2013, 22:45

    Monza is (for the time being!) Vettel’s joint most successful circuit in terms of number of wins (3), equalling Sepang and Suzuka.

    Vettel’s 3 Monza wins-from-pole are his only poles and his only podiums there.

    Webber’s podium means that the only circuit that Webber raced on in every season but never finished on the podium is Melbourne.

    Red Bull finally have more Monza podiums than Toro Rosso.

    First time since 2004 that neither McLaren was a podium contender going into the final lap at Monza.

    Red Bull become the first team to score back-to-back wins this year – curiously, races 11 & 12 were the first such occurrence last year as well (this time by McLaren in Hungary & Belgium). The last time we had to wait longer was 1983, when it did not happen until races 14 and 15 which were both won by Brabham (as was race 16, the final race).

    All the drivers finishing from 3rd to 10th inclusive, bar Hulkenberg, all finished in those positions for the second time this year.

    And some from magnetimarelli.com:

    11 drivers managed faster laps than the winner’s fastest during the race – the only race with more is Italy 2008 (13), also won by Vettel.

    First time since 1983 that neither McLaren qualified in the top 7 in Monza.

    First time since India 2011 that both Toro Rossos started in the top 10 (although they did get both cars into Q3 in Canada 2013 before Ricciardo was penalised), and the first time since India 2011 that the team currently known as Lotus missed Q3 with both cars.

    First time since the start of 2009 that Raikkonen has gone 2 races without scoring.

    Vettel has led exactly 49 laps in all 3 of his Monza wins.

    • Mike Dee (@mike-dee) said on 10th September 2013, 9:16

      First time since India 2011 that both Toro Rossos started in the top 10[...], and the first time since India 2011 that the team currently known as Lotus missed Q3 with both cars.

      Not by chance that those two are correlated.

      Vettel has led exactly 49 laps in all 3 of his Monza wins.

      Quite a quirk of statistic – you wonder how these things happen as it seems very random!

      Webber’s podium means that the only circuit that Webber raced on in every season but never finished on the podium is Melbourne.

      I feel a bit sorry about Webber for this – no podium at the home race is a bit sad.

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