2011 German Grand Prix championship points

2011 German Grand Prix

Drivers’ championship

Position Driver Points
1 Sebastian Vettel 216
2 Mark Webber 139
3 Lewis Hamilton 134
4 Fernando Alonso 130
5 Jenson Button 109
6 Felipe Massa 62
7 Nico Rosberg 46
8 Nick Heidfeld 34
9 Vitaly Petrov 32
10 Michael Schumacher 32
11 Kamui Kobayashi 27
12 Adrian Sutil 18
13 Jaime Alguersuari 9
14 Sergio Perez 8
15 Sebastien Buemi 8
16 Rubens Barrichello 4
17 Paul di Resta 2
18 Pedro de la Rosa 0
19 Jarno Trulli 0
20 Vitantonio Liuzzi 0
21 Pastor Maldonado 0
22 Jerome d’Ambrosio 0
23 Heikki Kovalainen 0
24 Timo Glock 0
25 Narain Karthikeyan 0
26 Daniel Ricciardo 0
27 Karun Chandhok 0

Constructors’ championship

Position Team Points
1 Red Bull 355
2 McLaren 243
3 Ferrari 192
4 Mercedes 78
5 Renault 66
6 Sauber 35
7 Force India 20
8 Toro Rosso 17
9 Williams 4
10 Lotus 0
11 HRT 0
12 Virgin 0

Detailed breakdown of the championship standings so far: 2011 F1 statistics: Championship points

2011 German Grand Prix

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77 comments on 2011 German Grand Prix championship points

  1. Fer no.65 (@fer-no65) said on 24th July 2011, 14:54

    Everything works for Vettel this year, really. Not a good race, no matter! He’ll still come back and gain 4th place so he barely gives away his lead in the championship.

    Fricking annoying! but you make your own luck, and he’s doing it brilliantly

    • StandNThrow said on 24th July 2011, 14:55

      Not forgetting nearly half the race he has problem with his rear brakes.

      • Fer no.65 (@fer-no65) said on 24th July 2011, 14:57

        posting the same thing on 2 different articles :P?

      • unocv12 said on 24th July 2011, 15:02

        He didn’t do anything though. And it wasn’t half the race.

        He was just beihnd Massa unable to get past before it and was in the same positions after it. No loss of position or stop and he proved prior that he couldn’t overtake.

        Looked like Webber 25 Vettel 10 for most of it. Ergo a 15 point cut for his lead. Instead Webber 15 Vettel 12 a 3 point cut. Or half of what he would have got if he moved over for Webber last week. fk

        • batador (@batador) said on 24th July 2011, 15:07

          i liked how the only time Vettel passed a car, it was during a pitstop

        • David-A (@david-a) said on 24th July 2011, 20:19

          Looked like Webber 25 Vettel 10 for most of it. Ergo a 15 point cut for his lead. Instead Webber 15 Vettel 12 a 3 point cut. Or half of what he would have got if he moved over for Webber last week. fk

          The Vettels, Hamiltons, Alonsos, Schumachers and Buttons of the sport grind out results when things aren’t going well. The Webbers screw up golden opportunities, whether they’re ahead in the championship or behind.

    • Franz said on 24th July 2011, 15:07

      Force Vettel into a scrap & he’ll always lose. His career stats speak volumes: only ONE race win when he’s not been on pole… ONE. He can drive in clear air, & it’s not that difficult to be on pole when you’ve got a car that’s usually anywhere from three tenths to a full second quicker in qualy trim than the next best.

      • RIISE (@riise) said on 24th July 2011, 15:43

        Brazil 2008, Vettel was in numerous scraps and triumphed. He just wasn’t one with the car this weekend, nothing more to it.

        • F1andy83 said on 24th July 2011, 15:46

          So how come webber can’t make into victories from pole? It can’t be thatbeasy.

          • DVC said on 25th July 2011, 2:21

            Because he can’t get off the line. It’s been that way his whole career.

        • Franz said on 24th July 2011, 15:51

          If you call placing 4th a triumph (just in front of a McLaren that was admittedly conservative on race setup), then I’ve got no argument for you there. LOL!

          • Mads (@mads) said on 24th July 2011, 15:53

            Remember he was in a Torro Rosso in 2008!

          • RIISE (@riise) said on 24th July 2011, 16:00

            Have you heard yourself? So in your eyes all cars are equal and the results are relative. Hmmm..

          • Franz said on 24th July 2011, 16:08

            My comment stands, & if you have any actual evidence to prove otherwise, please feel free to educate me. Vettel has only won once when he’s not been on pole, & that was more due to Mark Webber dropping the ball than anything else. Every other time he’s had to scrap for it, he’s lost the race. That was my initial comment, it is a fact, & unless you can show me otherwise I don’t even understand why you’re attempting to argue it.

          • Mads (@mads) said on 24th July 2011, 16:28

            If you call placing 4th a triumph (just in front of a McLaren that was admittedly conservative on race setup), then I’ve got no argument for you there. LOL!

            It was in regard to that comment.
            Furthermore you are not right that he has only won once not from pole. From the top of my head I remember Spain 2011, Brazil 2010. That is Two, and I am 100 sure that there are more. From front row of the grid, yes, but not from pole.

          • Franz said on 24th July 2011, 16:41

            You’re right! I had forgotten about Hulkenberg’s pole… good catch. I guess I’ve always though of that one as a bit of an anomaly to be honest (Nico’s 10th in that race was more indicative of the true pace of the Williams, IMO) but fair is fair: TWO race wins when not on pole. If you are indeed 100% sure there are more, it shouldn’t be too difficult to find the evidence to prove it. I’ll happily admit I was wrong about young Vettel if you do.

          • Mads (@mads) said on 24th July 2011, 16:44

            @Franz No it wasn’t actually. 3rd to 1st Malaysia 2010.
            http://www.formula1.com/results/season/2010/826/6716/

            Abu Dhabi 2009 is another. 2nd on the grid to 1st. Though Lewis did retire, but I don’t remember if Vettel were ahead at that point or not.

          • Franz said on 24th July 2011, 16:57

            I happily stand corrected! It doesn’t change my opinion of Vettel much though, but I will admit I was completely wrong with my statistics (I guess my memory isn’t what it used to be). So now we’ve gone to only one race win when he’s not been on the front row… still a disappointing statistic IMO, to be honest. If he’s in the lead @ turn one, it’s usually a done deal, but otherwise he does nothing special.
            I’ve been watching this sport for over 25 years now, & the reason I became a Formula One fan in the first place was because of the RACING. It’s only in recent years we’ve been forced to watch these boring processions masquerading as real races. Most enthusiasts I know who’ve been watching F1 for a while feel the same way. It’s the reason they’ve consistently changed the rules or banned cars that are too dominant: most fans want it to be more about the drivers than the cars. That’s why we hate most of the Tilke-designed tracks, because no matter how good you are, it’s near impossible to pass the guy in front. DRS & Pirelli have conspired to give us better racing this year than a few years ago for sure, & I’m loving this season so far. Could be better though. But sticking to my point, I’ll happily name Vettel as one of the best when he proves he’s capable of actually racing with the best, & not just winning when he can romp away from the front.

          • David-A (@david-a) said on 24th July 2011, 18:02

            But sticking to my point, I’ll happily name Vettel as one of the best when he proves he’s capable of actually racing with the best, & not just winning when he can romp away from the front.

            Not everyone has to prove they can race (or prove they are the best) by screwing up in qualifying or the start and making up places they should have had in the first place.

            You can prove you are the best by racing defensively. Imola 2005 and 2006 were phenomenal wins by Fernando Alonso and Michael Schumacher respectively. Why? Because they handled the pressure of a faster car bearing down on them brilliantly. Vettel had similar performances in consecutive races this year- at Spain, where Lewis Hamilton chased him down right at the end, and at Monaco, the “driver’s circuit”, by Alonso and Button.

            And yes, romping away from the front can prove that you are the best. Qualifying well is a great skill that Vettel appears to have in abundance. That’s why he’s got 22 poles to his teammate’s 9. Vettel leads a lot from pole, but would be having to overtake other cars if he was slower than he usually does. Does going slower make him a better driver?

          • Franz said on 24th July 2011, 18:26

            David, everyone is entitled to their opinion. In my opinion, winning from the front in what’s clearly the fastest car is expected at this level. That’s exactly why I’d never rate Mark Webber over Vettel, & that’s why I can’t rate Vettel over Alonso or Lewis. You say he’s good @ defensive driving, I say not so much because the only sort of defense I’ve seen him employ with any regularity is to virtually park on the apex, slow up everyone behind him & then rocket off into the distance. Effective yes, but nothing spectacular in my opinion. All of the drivers that most of us F1 enthusiasts & pundits rate highly have had defining moments in their careers where their skill has been painfully apparent… moments that are worth more than just statistics based on race wins. Moments we see immortalized in the various clips on YouTube, & watch slack-jawed in awe… I’m sure you’ve seen a lot of them. I can recall no such defining drive from Vettel, except maybe that one race win in the Toro Rosso, & I said earlier that it doesn’t carry much weight with me either because again: he started from pole, & Hamilton was reeling him in at a rapid rate till the weather went sour(er?). If you think young Vettel is the second coming, good on you… support your driver. I on the other hand have consistently watched him qualify on pole in the fastest car (expected) lead from the lights in the fastest car (expected) win in the fastest car (again, expected) but falter almost every single time when he’s not started from the front row. I’ve rarely seen him pull off anything but a straightforward overtaking move on lesser machinery. He’s pretty solid & dependable (very admirable traits for a race driver to have) but shows me nothing spectacular… & in a sport where the greats have been defined by spectacular drives ever since it’s inception, I can’t rate him in the same category as the greats. Not in the same category as a Lewis Hamilton or Fernando Alonso. That is just my opinion & I’m sticking to it… just as I’m sure you’ll probably stick to yours.

          • David-A (@david-a) said on 24th July 2011, 20:48

            You say he’s good @ defensive driving, I say not so much because the only sort of defense I’ve seen him employ with any regularity is to virtually park on the apex, slow up everyone behind him & then rocket off into the distance.

            I gave two clear, recent examples of occasions when his car did not have an advantage, but still triumphed by holding off his competitors.

          • David-A (@david-a) said on 24th July 2011, 20:50

            You say he’s good @ defensive driving, I say not so much because the only sort of defense I’ve seen him employ with any regularity is to virtually park on the apex, slow up everyone behind him & then rocket off into the distance.

            I gave two clear, recent examples of occasions when his car did not have an advantage, but still triumphed by holding off his competitors with the sort of special drive Alonso and Schumacher were remembered for at Imola.

          • Franz said on 24th July 2011, 21:08

            I had an answer for your two so called clear instances: In Spain, he parked on slowed up on the apex & then drove off. Hamilton was into the limiter on the straight (the only place the McLaren had the advantage) & couldn’t get past since his car was geared too short. The RB7 stretched the lead anytime they got to anything resembling a corner: it has the most aero grip so you’d expect that. Your next example was Monaco? Seriously? You expected to see a load of overtaking moves @ Monaco?

          • Franz said on 24th July 2011, 21:10

            * parked or slowed up… typo

          • Franz said on 24th July 2011, 21:35

            If Vettel hanging on @ Monaco (with the gift of a last minute safety car as well) was a special defensive drive, then pretty much every driver who’s ever contested the Monaco GP has had a special defensive race, because there’s rarely ever any overtaking @ Monaco.

          • David-A (@david-a) said on 24th July 2011, 22:25

            Monaco was special because he had 53 lap old tyres (something you do not see at every Monaco Grand Prix) and was hunted down by 2 drivers with much fresher rubber. Many would have cracked under the pressure and put it in the wall.

          • Franz said on 24th July 2011, 22:33

            IMO, he never really got put under the real pressure that was headed his way: He was rescued by the safety car, & ran the last 10 minutes of the race on brand new tires. Can’t really give him too much credit for withstanding pressure that never came, because he got bailed out just when he was about to suffer the most of it. Had he gone the distance, I might concede. As it stood, he got gifted the win in the end.

          • David-A (@david-a) said on 24th July 2011, 23:10

            I do agree that the red flag was a poor decision by the race director, and was rather fortunate for him. However, he still deserves credit for withstanding Alonso’s attempts to pass (he was noticeably trying, unlike Button), and for making the call to go for track position rather than get new tyres like Button/Alonso, on a track where safety cars are common.

      • Mads (@mads) said on 24th July 2011, 15:51

        He did brilliant at TR where he always was in traffic. I think most of the problem is that the car is slower on the straights compared to the others so it is really hard to overtake without being gifted it from a mistake. Webber hasn’t been an overtaking king either has he?
        I admit that it is not his strongest side, but I think some of it is down to the nature of the car, since nearly all overtaking spots are after a long straight into a hard breaking zone, which is not where the RB7 is the best.

        • Mike (@mike) said on 24th July 2011, 16:03

          I think you have pretty much got it right, the RB7 just isn’t built to overtake like the Mclaren is. However, running at the front it has done well.

          • bearforce1 said on 24th July 2011, 16:10

            interesting idea

          • DVC said on 25th July 2011, 2:26

            Webber seems to do reasonably well overtaking with it. Perhaps this just means that more often than not he is out of position after the start/qualifying though.

        • Franz said on 24th July 2011, 16:25

          It is an interesting idea. Not sure I buy it though… I mean sure Vettel looked racy in his Toro Rosso relative to the rest of the mid fielders. Since his ascension to the big leagues, he’s not proven himself capable of critical overtaking moves… something the other top drivers (IMO, the top drivers are Fernando Alonso & Lewis Hamilton) have shown mastery at on numerous occasions. His one race win in the Toro Rosso was a great wet weather drive no doubt… I have nothing bad to say about his ability to drive the car in clear air… but again, he lead from the lights. & I don’t know if any of you remember this, but he was being caught at an astonishingly quick rate by Lewis Hamilton until the weather changed & forced Lewis into an extra pit stop. Would it have been any different otherwise? No clue, & I’m not gonna speculate. The fact though is he was being reeled in before than happened. I will gladly give him his due when he proves to me that he’s capable of winning races from someplace other than the front. Every other world champion (in recent years, at least) has that over him.

      • David-A (@david-a) said on 24th July 2011, 18:11

        His career stats speak volumes: only ONE race win when he’s not been on pole… ONE.

        His career stats also say that he’s started on pole from almost one third of his races.

        • Franz said on 24th July 2011, 19:06

          Again, in the car that had a comically large advantage over anything else on the grid. That’s expected. That’s the argument: he’s done so well because he’s had the fastest car & only does well when he starts at the front in said car, save one or two occasions.

          • David-A (@david-a) said on 24th July 2011, 19:13

            When he wasn’t in the fastest car, didn’t just win that race at Monza. He finished 8th in the world championship- ahead of both Red Bulls, Toyotas and one of the Renaults. He’s had the fastest car this year, but has driven as well as (if not better than) anyone else on the grid to maximise that potential.

          • Franz said on 24th July 2011, 19:24

            And again, you’re entitled to your opinion but I disagree emphatically. Vettel’s not hurting for fans, obviously. I don’t think it matters too much that there are some of us who don’t believe the hype, because quite frankly we’ve seen better racers do more spectacular things on the racetrack with inferior machinery… while Vettel struggles to overtake anyone while driving an obviously quick Red Bull RB7.

          • David-A (@david-a) said on 24th July 2011, 20:14

            because quite frankly we’ve seen better racers do more spectacular things on the racetrack with inferior machinery… while Vettel struggles to overtake anyone while driving an obviously quick Red Bull RB7.

            Vettel’s achievements in lesser machinery on 2007 and 2008 are amongst those impressive things we have seen on the racetrack.

          • Franz said on 24th July 2011, 21:13

            May have been impressive to you. Like I said, I’ve seen way better… & the fact still remains he can barely overtake anyone, even while driving the bonkers Red Bull RB7.

    • BasCB (@bascb) said on 24th July 2011, 15:38

      Yeah, he just can’t lose really.

      • 1 of the 3 said on 25th July 2011, 10:23

        Have read through the David A and Franz comments and both make solid points.

        In a worst case scenario though Vettel is the 3rd best driver out there. This year Vettel has vastly improved on his weaknesses from 2010. He’s improved his starts, is hardly as “impetuous” as last year and has matured greatly overall. He’s 24 and still has time to become a better overtaker.

        Vettel is definitely world class and to say otherwise is not to use critical thinking. Hamilton from my vantage point makes amazing over taking moves as a result from always going for it (will this win him many more championships though?) and Alonso I feel has the best all round game but don’t count out Vettel eventually becoming a solid overtaker with time.

    • AndrewTanner (@andrewtanner) said on 25th July 2011, 21:46

      The guy still has 3 clear wins over anyone else, relatively, nothing has changed.

  2. Eggry (@eggry) said on 24th July 2011, 15:11

    Oh Please! I beg you Vettel! Please~ just 1 DNF!

    Anyway good battle between top 3. I think Alonso lost because of pit wall…

    • DVC said on 25th July 2011, 2:29

      1 DNF won’t do it. 3 DNFs and it might be interesting. Break a leg mid-season and someone else might win the championship. Would be really interesting if that happened though I wouldn’t wish it on him.

    • AndrewTanner (@andrewtanner) said on 25th July 2011, 21:47

      Instead of wishing a DNF on Vettel try perhaps complaining about the other teams? You don’t get where Vettel is by luck so don’t be so quick to take it away from him. The other teams need to pull their finger out more and more!

  3. F1andy83 said on 24th July 2011, 15:47

    On an overall note. I don’t think we will see vettel do anything too crazy. He has too much to lose to risk a dnf.

  4. Fixy (@fixy) said on 24th July 2011, 16:48

    The fight for second position is very close – the commentator said Alonso asked his fellow drivers to take points away from Vettel, everyone. For once Massa was fourth and then the pit error put him 5th – his best result this season.

  5. damonsmedley (@damonsmedley) said on 24th July 2011, 17:03

    Something I hadn’t noticed; we’re over half way through the season, and Williams are on 4 points. That’s very, very depressing indeed. :cry:

  6. Daniel said on 24th July 2011, 17:13

    people claiming Vettel only wins from pole. 90% of Alonso’s wins are from gifted DNFS and engine failures.

    • Franz said on 24th July 2011, 17:18

      Even if that’s true, at least Fernando can overtake.

      • David-A (@david-a) said on 24th July 2011, 18:20

        But that shows Vettel as having the raw speed to start from pole more times than anyone else on the grid.

        • Franz said on 24th July 2011, 19:03

          Because he’s been in a car with the biggest advantage over the next best for more race starts in his career than anyone else on the grid. I can’t recall any other car consistently having such a huge advantage in qualifying as the RB7 has… can you?

          • David-A (@david-a) said on 24th July 2011, 19:10

            The MP4-4, 5 and 6, the Ferrari F2002 and 2004.

            Yes, he’s benefitted from great machinery, but is still a phenomenal qualifier (better at that than driving in races sometimes to be honest).

          • Franz said on 24th July 2011, 21:28

            It’s easier to be a phenomenal qualifier when your car is the fastest… that’s kinda like saying the best free throw shooter is the best basketball player: you’re expected to score when nobody’s playing defense! Just like you’re expected to be on pole when you’re in the fastest car. Not saying it’s easy, just easier for the guy driving the fastest car.

          • David-A (@david-a) said on 24th July 2011, 22:29

            It may be easier, but Vettel is quickly proving himself to be one of the best on the grid in my view, with days like today being an exception, rather than the rule.

          • Franz said on 24th July 2011, 22:36

            Never said he wasn’t a good driver… far from it, but there are at least three better racers out there. & him proving he can barely overtake competitive drivers has been the rule… today was no exception.

          • David-A (@david-a) said on 24th July 2011, 23:02

            Ok then I think we can agree Vettel is probably the best driver (qualifying, driving with a clear road) on the grid, but hasn’t proven himself to be one of the best racers yet (overtaking).

  7. marc said on 24th July 2011, 17:42

    For Those who really understand Formula One….today it shows..true talented driver and respected each other among them race with class act and beautifull,they are Webber,Alonso and Hamilton…..so far for Vettel,he just over protected driver from Redbull racing who really doesnt deserved to be called F1 Champ or the next Schumacher !! Vettel only lucky to have redbull support him instead of Mark Webber !!

    • David-A (@david-a) said on 24th July 2011, 19:00

      I’m afraid that Vettel showed his true talents over most of the previous 9 races. Today is only one race, which in the bigger picture changes very little. Especially that rubbish about Webber being “truly talented” and Vettel not.

      • marc said on 25th July 2011, 1:20

        Vettel always and has been not extreamly bad when he was in traffic or had to struggle to fight for positions…..more simple Vettel only can drive when he had clean air for his car or more simple when he was leading !! He only lucky to have fastest car at the 1 st half of the season and didnt had KERS problem ….and lucky has Newey do the work for him,not like Alonso who can improved cars….look at when he was at Renault and Ferrari now…..

  8. Luis said on 24th July 2011, 17:57

    i`m done with this website, my commment being with no offences are being deleted. i dont get how its the proper way to express yourself here.

  9. David-A (@david-a) said on 24th July 2011, 18:08

    12 Adrian Sutil 18
    17 Paul di Resta 2

    Oh dear.

    • Atticus (@atticus-2) said on 25th July 2011, 8:32

      Yeah that’s so unfair. Di Resta owned Sutil for most of the season so far.

      Points don’t always reflect actual performance.

      Senna drove three of his best ever weekend in 1994 yet finished with 3 DNFs.

  10. f1alex said on 24th July 2011, 18:53

    It’s nice to see Petrov only two points behind his team mate, I think he has improved quite considerably as a driver this year.

  11. wasiF1 (@wasif1) said on 25th July 2011, 2:25

    Webber, Hamilton & Alonso is closed in beautifully but the main thing for Vettel is that all of those three are from different team so instead of taking points away from Vettel they will fight between them to take points from each other which sometimes may end up in tears.

  12. DaveW said on 25th July 2011, 2:26

    OK so what is the math now for catching Vettel? 9 points per race, i.e., the first to third gap. That is actually not impossible. Add in the chance of a couple more Nurburgrings for Vettel and couple DNFs, and Webber and Hamilton don’t need to start sticking pins in their Vettel Voodoo dolls just yet. If Webber or Hamilton win and Vettel comes third or worse in Hungary, Vettel will be under some actual pressure. The bright side for Vettel, what makes the catch up scenario still unlikely, is that neither Hamilton nor Alonso have teammates likely to join them on the podium even when their cars are performing well.

  13. Atticus (@atticus-2) said on 25th July 2011, 8:34

    If it weren’t for Vettel this could be as exciting a championship as 2010 was.

    Tips for 2nd?

    I think it’s going to be Hamilton or Alonso. I go for Alonso.

    • Todfod (@todfod) said on 25th July 2011, 19:33

      I would go for Alonso at #2 as well. Followed by Hamilton and Webber.

      I also have a feeling that Massa will end up with more points than Button by the end of the season.

  14. AndrewTanner (@andrewtanner) said on 25th July 2011, 21:48

    2nd place remains pretty tight but we’ve lost Button which is unfortunate :(

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