Poll: McLaren – was it a cover up?
Hanlon’s Razor says you should: “Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.”
When McLaren first investigated Mike Coughlan’s possession of 780 pages of Ferrari information they found little evidence of its widespread use within the team. But after two hearings the team were found guilty of bringing the sport into disrepute and a document published by the FIA last week quoted senior McLaren staff referring to Nigel Stepeny as the ‘mole’ in Ferrari.
Did McLaren try to cover up the truth? Did they simply make mistakes in their original investigation? Or is there another explanation? Vote and discuss below…
This poll is closed. The results are as follows:
McLaren made mistakes in their investigation – 53 – 26%
McLaren were trying to cover up how widely the material had been used – 119 – 59%
Neither – McLaren’s version of events is entirely accurate – 17 – 8%
Don’t know – 14 – 7%
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Craig said on 17th December 2007, 15:14
Too many people who know Ron seem to think he is honest and trustworthy to have honestly deceived the FIA – whether the other people at the top of his organisation are the same I don’t know.
There doesn’t seem to be any doubt now though that the FIA were right not to trust what they said in the first instance and it’s this distrust that really caused all the problems – had McLaren been able to say what the reality of the situation was from the outset then it would have saved a lot of bad publicity.
The fact that they couldn’t (or didn’t) points me to the suggest their initial investigation into the whole thing was flawed.
Hopefully the whole scenario is coming towards a conclusion now and it can be forgotten about – fat chance!
Number 38 said on 17th December 2007, 15:26
WOW! There’s nothing left for me to say.
Concerning the question: Did McLaren try to cover up the truth? Or is there another explanation?
There is a possible answer that wasn’t offered in the question….. McLaren didn’t actually USE any Ferrari data.
I don’t think they got much beyond analysing the 780 pages, the story broke before they implimented anything of value.
There’s a line between wanting to benefit from the data and crossing the line to use it. They got caught before they could make the final step.
And I might add Ron Dennis (through Whitmarsh) probably made things worse with the last apology. The last one was un-necessary except to perhaps get MadMax off McLaren’s back.
86 days to the 2008 season…..
carlos said on 17th December 2007, 15:50
Steven,
“Take the qualifying nonsense at Hungary as an example. Alonso gets it into his stupid head to behave like a spoiled brat but McLaren lose all their constructor’s points. Why?”
I do not if I misunderstand what you mean, but…
Who behave like a spoiled brat? I want not to mention the name (or two names) again.
What Mclaren lose? I would say much more that they could think in that time, but officially it was Alonso who lose something, not Mclaren.
About the poll, really I do have many doubts about and I do not know what they did, but I think some things in the Fia reports could indicate towards the B option or a mix of A and B. I think the C is difficult to believe even for a Mclaren fan.
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 17th December 2007, 15:54
I think he was referring to McLaren’s constructors’ points from the Hungarian Grand Prix being confiscated.
More on this:
The stewards’ full verdicts on McLaren & Alonso
Alonso & McLaren punished by stewards
George said on 17th December 2007, 16:38
How about a cover up with another explanation? Ron has a reputation as a tough task master to work for, so if the engineering types were using Ferrari IP it would be in their own self interest to keep Ron in the dark. How else on earth would Ron proclaim their innocence time after time if he KNEW they were looking at Ferrari IP for the 2008 car? Ron may be arrogant, but he’s not an idiot.
Vertigo said on 17th December 2007, 16:54
There is no way Ron knew about any cover up, but I still reckon there was one, there is no way that Ferrari intelligence just sat in McLaren’s head offices not being used.
AmericanTifosi said on 17th December 2007, 16:59
I think that there was a cover-up but it was probally not by the entire team or by Ron Dennis. Those who had been found in possesion of that material most likely tried to cover up to save their own necks. I do not doubt the integity of Ron or the McLaren team as a whole. They did however, employ some very flawed indidviduals.
Steven Roy said on 17th December 2007, 17:00
Carlos,
As Keith pointed out the FIA took away the constructor’s points for both cars for the actions of one of its drivers. I know Hamilton triggered Alonso’s behaviour by breaking their agreementinstructions but Alonso attracted Max’s attention which is a bad thing to do unless you happen to be sitting in a Ferrari.
The point is not my description of Alonso’s behaviour it is simply that McLaren were given a punishment no team in 58 seasons has received for the behaviour of its driver.
casl said on 17th December 2007, 17:30
Steven,
I think Carlos’ point is that the penalty came as a result of a complaint lodged by Lewis Hamilton. Alonso’s action of its own did not attract the stewards attention.
What I find quite interesting about this post and subsequent debate is how Ron Dennis is being given the benefit of the doubt. I always thought it was unfair that Alonso was never given the same courtesy.
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 17th December 2007, 17:32
Was it proven that Hamilton appealed? I don’t remember hearing that it had been (and it’s the sort of thing I hope I’d remember!)
I know in the same session Fisichella was penalised for obstructing Yamamoto, and I don’t think he or Spyker appealed.
casl said on 17th December 2007, 18:09
Keith,
Interestingly you chose to address the first point and not the second! :-)
It may not have been reported in the press over here but I remember hearing Alonso on el Larguero, the spanish radio programme, say that he had never seen anything like it before, a team getting pole and second and then going to the stewards to complain. I’ll try to find a transcript.
Steven Roy said on 17th December 2007, 19:37
According to the BBC link below and others I have read McLaren and its drivers were summoned to attend a meeting. I can find nothing anywhere to say McLaren instigated the whole thing. I have no doubt once they got to the meeting things were said that should not have been said but there is no way McLaren would protest their own driver. Even at the height of the Senna/Prost era when they were deliberately crashing into each other the team did not protest.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/6929333.stm
carlos said on 17th December 2007, 21:39
It was not the whole Mclaren team who instigated against Alonso, in fact Alonso said the behaviour of Mclaren was right. I was talking about Hamilton (He is young, I know). The links are in spanish, sorry, I can not find in english.
http://www.elpais.com/articulo/deportes/noche/fratricida/McLaren/elpepudep/20070806elpepidep_4/Tes
http://www.cadenaser.com/actualidad/audios/david-alonso-fernando-le-gustaria/csrcsrpor/20070806csrcsr_19/Aes/
Steven Roy said on 17th December 2007, 22:11
I have managed to translate the first link. I cannot see how Anthony Hamilton alerted the FIA. The TV coverage I saw picked it up within seconds of the lollipop going up to release Alonso and figured out why he had done it before he moved. I left home immediately after qualifying and on the radio they were discussing the situation.
Anthony Hamilton cannot make any kind of official protest. Come to that Lewis Hamilton cannot make an official protest. At any level of motor racing all communication with the organising body must be made by the entrant. In F1 that is the team.
I know the FIA do some odd things but they must have noticed Alonso sitting there preventing Hamilton from pitting. They would have understood immediately how it would have been reported in the press. Why would they need it brought to their attention?
To me the matter should have been left to the team to deal with or at worst the FIA should have had a word with both drivers to never to do anything similar again.
Sri said on 18th December 2007, 5:28
To Number38..
Quote: “There is a possible answer that wasn’t offered in the question….. McLaren didn’t actually USE any Ferrari data.
I don’t think they got much beyond analysing the 780 pages, the story broke before they implimented anything of value.
There’s a line between wanting to benefit from the data and crossing the line to use it. They got caught before they could make the final step.”
Check this out my friend!
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/64374
You’ll definitely find it useful to form some opinion of Macca. Even i did not believe that McLaren, a team known world across, for their engineering prowess(along with team Willy), would do such a lowly thing. Guess what? We are all human!